Hi Aaron,
I think that Joe Desisto made some excellent points. I would also caution you that some of the lack of response may come from your delivery. It is very difficult via email to convey tone, but yours is a little bit off-putting. I don’t think you intend that, but it is. As an example…I am not in your target group (I don’t deal with invertebrates), have three young children at home, and a full-time job with both a teaching and administrative component (and a lot of outreach!). However, I did open one of your initial messages from maybe early November. It sounded like a great opportunity even though I quickly realized that it was not a good match for me. I noticed though that VERY quickly (over a weekend I recall and perhaps in less than a week) you had replied with a complaint that you didn’t get a single respondent! This did not endear me. Keep in mind, many of us have minimal budgets and may have travel costs that have to come out-of-pocket. I try to limit my outreach to in-state (but definitely more than 1 mile!) and almost inevitably eat some of the costs. Much of the outreach I do results from people personally calling me and appealing to the fact that they think I would be a good match for them. That personal touch and the “thanks for your time even if you can’t do it” approach goes a long way. Good luck – it does seem you are doing some good work. Best, Keely Keely Tolley Roen Assistant Teaching Professor of Wildlife Technology Wildlife Technology Program Coordinator & College of Agriculture Representative Penn State DuBois 814-372-3003 <mailto:kat...@psu.edu> kat...@psu.edu From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Joseph Desisto Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 3:12 PM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Impossibility of outreach I think I am in your target audience -- recent graduate with experience in entomology and outreach, still with a fair amount of time on my hands. I did not open your original request because it seems like the majority of postings on this listserv are people asking me to do unpaid work, and I stopped opening those the second I graduated and had to look for an actual job. Young ecologists are generally too busy looking for paid work to be very interested in volunteer opportunities, especially in the current job market. I know many skilled, experienced young environmental scientists and biologists who have left the field because they couldn't find someone who would actually pay them for their time. I may be joining them soon. How can I justify traveling to do unpaid work for someone I don't know, who won't offer me a paid position anytime soon? I understand you don't have funding, but I don't have funding either. When I do volunteer work, which is infrequent, I help with projects such as bioblitzes in my local area run by people I know personally, like former professors and classmates, or others who specifically ask me because they know and value my skill set. I read their emails, regardless of length, because their emails say "Dear Joe" right at the top. I also volunteer for causes that are outside my profession, like political advocacy. So my advice would be, find individual people in your region whose skills you value. Reach out to them personally, and explain how the project is a) for a good cause, and b) beneficial to them, the people whose time you are requesting. Don't expect people to come to you, and don't treat volunteering as a privilege where the benefits are obvious -- that's presumptuous and insulting. Maybe offer to introduce them to other scientists who are influential and/or hiring? Letting them participate in the event for free is a good idea, but networking is about more than just being in a room full of other professionals. I'm sure there are also amateur entomologists in your area who would be happy to help, maybe at the local Entomological Society. Frame it as an invitation to an exciting event, rather than a request for unpaid labor, but understand that unpaid labor is exactly what you're asking for so when people are unenthusiastic, don't take it personally. I realize this sounds like a lot of work to do without funds, but frankly, you're asking other people to do a lot of work without funds, so that's the way it goes. If all else fails, you'd be surprised what people will do for a good pizza. I hope this helps. Best, Joe DeSisto On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com <mailto:bugoc...@gmail.com> > wrote: It seems simply stating the size of the event would make the remaining opportunities you describe obvious. I can't really write a thesis on an event I'm doing for free and spending a few $k of my own money to make happen - it's not my regular job. Also, I am told people have an aversion to reading/seeing long emails. In my experience people have an aversion to reading/seeing ANY email (or voicemail, phone call, smoke signal, carrier pigeon letter, mailer.... any form of communication) so maybe my point is moot. It's probably best that I just give up on ISI (the organization I came up with but is apparently stunningly unpopular) and organizing large sections and plan on doing a single table by myself (like I do everything else) in hears I want to go to USA Sci Fest. A lot cheaper that way and, even better, I don't have to rely on humans. * I wise old proverb: "If it is to be, it will be done by me." On 12/4/2017 9:25 AM, Nicole Holstein wrote: There is also an oversaturation of volunteer requests, it seems. There is so much work going on these days, which is great, but not enough funding, so there are just a ton of efforts that rely on volunteer work to happen. I know of 2 or 3 requests for volunteers in my department as it is right now. I think more targeted messaging with clear and substantial benefits for volunteering will result in a higher response rate. For example, targeting local invertebrate and entomology graduate students and offering free admission to the festival (and not just on the days they volunteer) and food while they work would be good. Communicating what an opportunity for learning and networking the job is, too, will help, as will stressing that helping with events like this festival is vital for getting the next generation of entomologists and invertebrate biologists interested in the field. I happen to know a person who just graduated with an MS in entomology in the DC area, and he hasn't even heard of the opportunity to volunteer, or even that there is an invertebrate section to the Science and Engineering Festival. So even though your outreach is large, it may not be reaching the right people. Nicole Holstein 304-437-5876 <tel:(304)%20437-5876> <http://www.twitter.com/nicoleeoli12> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicoleholstein/> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Brian Turner <bctur...@pdx.edu <mailto:bctur...@pdx.edu> > wrote: Aaron, I think Adam has a good point, in particular in regards to just missing emails due to the daily deluge. I had instinctively deleted your initial email asking for insight and just happened to take notice of his response. I do outreach related to invertebrates (mostly invasive species or marine organisms) when I can. On my end it boils down to 1) do I have the time to do outreach and meet my personal/work obligations and 2) do I have money to cover any associated costs. With mass emails, much of your audience may not be local. Unless you have funding to cover travel (maybe you do, I haven't seen the original request) then a big chunk of your audience will immediately reject the idea. And even if you have the funding, potential volunteers would have to consider the impact of time spent in transit as well as volunteering. I know these are hardly new observations, but still worth keeping in mind. Brian On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Adam Eichenwald <sma...@mac.com <mailto:sma...@mac.com> > wrote: I would bet that the problem is an extension of the “bystander effect” (When it comes to people in trouble, wikipedia states : "onlookers see that others are not helping either, that onlookers believe others will know better how to help, and that onlookers feel uncertain about helping while others are watching"). I’d think that by asking for volunteers on large social media platforms, you’re A) opening yourself up to an electronic version of the bystander effect, where people think “I would, but I’m super busy. I’m sure someone else will do this instead.” B) Falling into a hole due to the hundreds of emails that we all get every day from these listservs and potentially being ignored. Generally to get around the bystander effect when someone is in trouble, you’re supposed to point to someone in particular and say “you call 911.” Maybe you’d get better responses if you send these emails out to the listserv and have a few colleagues already prepped to “reply all” and announce their intention of volunteering? That way you’d also ensure people are getting pinged repeatedly and would be more likely to volunteer as well. I’m not a social psychologist so I’m kind of shooting in the dark here. On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com <mailto:bugoc...@gmail.com> > wrote: Once again I have floated around invitations to help with the invertebrate section of the USA science and engineering festival to literally thousands of people on social media and 2 "major" ento and ecolog email listservs , for months, and once again not a single response. (Also to many private zoos and museums etc). This is the largest science outreach event in North America. In fact I've been trying this for 3 years if you count my efforts trying to recruit volunteers for the 2016 one which also has as of yet gotten no response. Why is this so impossible? Do universities not do outreach in these fields anymore or do faculty, students and staff no longer volunteer for anything or respond to emails? If these things are to continue to exist whatsoever yes people will have to start communicating, volunteering and working with others at other organizations beyond a 1 mile radius of their employer. With last week's feudalist austerity bill establishing a firm and steep caste system in this country, there isn't going to be money for this stuff so people will have to volunteer for stuff like this or it won't happen. Thoughts? * note that I did this event in 2012 and 2014 without funding and it worked out great so it CAN be done. Sent from my iPhone -- Brian Turner, PhD Department of Environmental Science & Management Portland State University (ESM), PO BOX 751, Portland, OR 97207 Email: bctur...@pdx.edu <mailto:bctur...@pdx.edu> ATD of ATB and ISI -- Aaron T. 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