Joe's point is key, Mongabay wrote about this in August and then the Guardian republished it in full despite its length:
*A rich person’s profession? Young conservationists struggle to make it* - *Mongabay interviewed young conservationists about their experiences launching their careers.* - *Many of them related similar stories of having to reconsider their career choice as a result of the conservation sector’s tight job market, high educational and experience requirements, and often-temporary entry-level jobs.* - *To meet prospective employers’ demands for experience, many graduates become stuck in full-time unpaid internships or long-term volunteering.* - *As a result of these trends, the field of conservation may be hemorrhaging passionate, qualified, and innovative young people.* Full feature here: https://news.mongabay.com/2017/08/a-rich-persons-profession-young-conservationists-struggle-to-make-it/ The 82 comments skew this way: *"As a twenty-something with a Cambridge masters in Conservation, the unpaid internships, the rejections... this was such a needed article. Helps me understand that I'm not alone, and it's not my fault that I couldn't land a conservation job. Thank you!"* Erik -- See my latest writing and photojournalism projects here <http://www.erikhoffner.com/> *tw: @erikhoffner <https://twitter.com/ErikHoffner>* On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 4:15 PM, Robert Ripple <robert.a.rip...@gmail.com> wrote: > Joe Desisto, > > Amen. I personally know several recent MS grads who have left the field or > are waiting tables. They’ve never been able to get more than temp jobs in > the field despite sound backgrounds from good schools. I think university > departments and the profession need to think about the consequences of > churning out so many grads for a limited number of paid positions. This > shouldn’t be a field for the independently wealthy. And it’s hard to commit > to a PhD program when the prospects for an MS are rough. > > Regards, > > Bob Ripple > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 4, 2017, at 1:12 PM, Joseph Desisto <joseph.desi...@uconn.edu> > wrote: > > I think I am in your target audience -- recent graduate with experience in > entomology and outreach, still with a fair amount of time on my hands. I > did not open your original request because it seems like the majority of > postings on this listserv are people asking me to do unpaid work, and I > stopped opening those the second I graduated and had to look for an actual > job. > > Young ecologists are generally too busy looking for paid work to be very > interested in volunteer opportunities, especially in the current job > market. I know many skilled, experienced young environmental scientists and > biologists who have left the field because they couldn't find someone who > would actually pay them for their time. I may be joining them soon. How can > I justify traveling to do unpaid work for someone I don't know, who won't > offer me a paid position anytime soon? I understand you don't have funding, > but I don't have funding either. > > When I do volunteer work, which is infrequent, I help with projects such > as bioblitzes in my local area run by people I know personally, like former > professors and classmates, or others who specifically ask me because they > know and value my skill set. I read their emails, regardless of length, > because their emails say "Dear Joe" right at the top. I also volunteer for > causes that are outside my profession, like political advocacy. So my > advice would be, find individual people in your region whose skills you > value. Reach out to them personally, and explain how the project is a) for > a good cause, and b) beneficial to them, the people whose time you are > requesting. > > Don't expect people to come to you, and don't treat volunteering as a > privilege where the benefits are obvious -- that's presumptuous and > insulting. Maybe offer to introduce them to other scientists who are > influential and/or hiring? Letting them participate in the event for free > is a good idea, but networking is about more than just being in a room full > of other professionals. I'm sure there are also amateur entomologists in > your area who would be happy to help, maybe at the local Entomological > Society. Frame it as an invitation to an exciting event, rather than a > request for unpaid labor, but understand that unpaid labor is exactly what > you're asking for so when people are unenthusiastic, don't take it > personally. I realize this sounds like a lot of work to do without funds, > but frankly, you're asking other people to do a lot of work without funds, > so that's the way it goes. If all else fails, you'd be surprised what > people will do for a good pizza. > > I hope this helps. > > Best, > > Joe DeSisto > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> It seems simply stating the size of the event would make the remaining >> opportunities you describe obvious. I can't really write a thesis on an >> event I'm doing for free and spending a few $k of my own money to make >> happen - it's not my regular job. >> >> Also, I am told people have an aversion to reading/seeing long emails. >> In my experience people have an aversion to reading/seeing ANY email (or >> voicemail, phone call, smoke signal, carrier pigeon letter, mailer.... any >> form of communication) so maybe my point is moot. >> >> It's probably best that I just give up on ISI (the organization I came up >> with but is apparently stunningly unpopular) and organizing large sections >> and plan on doing a single table by myself (like I do everything else) in >> hears I want to go to USA Sci Fest. A lot cheaper that way and, even >> better, I don't have to rely on humans. >> >> >> >> * I wise old proverb: "If it is to be, it will be done by me." >> >> >> On 12/4/2017 9:25 AM, Nicole Holstein wrote: >> >> There is also an oversaturation of volunteer requests, it seems. There is >> so much work going on these days, which is great, but not enough funding, >> so there are just a ton of efforts that rely on volunteer work to happen. >> I know of 2 or 3 requests for volunteers in my department as it is right >> now. >> >> I think more targeted messaging with clear and substantial benefits for >> volunteering will result in a higher response rate. For example, targeting >> local invertebrate and entomology graduate students and offering free >> admission to the festival (and not just on the days they volunteer) and >> food while they work would be good. Communicating what an opportunity for >> learning and networking the job is, too, will help, as will stressing that >> helping with events like this festival is vital for getting the next >> generation of entomologists and invertebrate biologists interested in the >> field. >> >> I happen to know a person who just graduated with an MS in entomology in >> the DC area, and he hasn't even heard of the opportunity to volunteer, or >> even that there is an invertebrate section to the Science and Engineering >> Festival. So even though your outreach is large, it may not be reaching the >> right people. >> >> *Nicole Holstein* >> 304-437-5876 <(304)%20437-5876> >> >> [image: Follow teststamp on Twitter] >> <http://www.twitter.com/nicoleeoli12> >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicoleholstein/> >> >> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Brian Turner <bctur...@pdx.edu> wrote: >> >>> Aaron, >>> >>> I think Adam has a good point, in particular in regards to just missing >>> emails due to the daily deluge. I had instinctively deleted your initial >>> email asking for insight and just happened to take notice of his response. >>> >>> I do outreach related to invertebrates (mostly invasive species or >>> marine organisms) when I can. On my end it boils down to 1) do I have the >>> time to do outreach and meet my personal/work obligations and 2) do I have >>> money to cover any associated costs. With mass emails, much of your >>> audience may not be local. Unless you have funding to cover travel (maybe >>> you do, I haven't seen the original request) then a big chunk of your >>> audience will immediately reject the idea. And even if you have the >>> funding, potential volunteers would have to consider the impact of time >>> spent in transit as well as volunteering. I know these are hardly new >>> observations, but still worth keeping in mind. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Adam Eichenwald <sma...@mac.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I would bet that the problem is an extension of the “bystander effect” >>>> (When it comes to people in trouble, wikipedia states : "onlookers see >>>> that others are not helping either, that onlookers believe others will know >>>> better how to help, and that onlookers feel uncertain about helping while >>>> others are watching"). >>>> >>>> I’d think that by asking for volunteers on large social media >>>> platforms, you’re A) opening yourself up to an electronic version of the >>>> bystander effect, where people think “I would, but I’m super busy. I’m sure >>>> someone else will do this instead.” B) Falling into a hole due to the >>>> hundreds of emails that we all get every day from these listservs and >>>> potentially being ignored. >>>> >>>> Generally to get around the bystander effect when someone is in >>>> trouble, you’re supposed to point to someone in particular and say “you >>>> call 911.” Maybe you’d get better responses if you send these emails out to >>>> the listserv and have a few colleagues already prepped to “reply all” and >>>> announce their intention of volunteering? That way you’d also ensure people >>>> are getting pinged repeatedly and would be more likely to volunteer as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> I’m not a social psychologist so I’m kind of shooting in the dark here. >>>> >>>> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Aaron T. Dossey <bugoc...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Once again I have floated around invitations to help with the >>>> invertebrate section of the USA science and engineering festival to >>>> literally thousands of people on social media and 2 "major" ento and ecolog >>>> email listservs , for months, and once again not a single response. (Also >>>> to many private zoos and museums etc). This is the largest science outreach >>>> event in North America. >>>> >>>> In fact I've been trying this for 3 years if you count my efforts >>>> trying to recruit volunteers for the 2016 one which also has as of yet >>>> gotten no response. >>>> >>>> Why is this so impossible? Do universities not do outreach in these >>>> fields anymore or do faculty, students and staff no longer volunteer for >>>> anything or respond to emails? >>>> >>>> If these things are to continue to exist whatsoever yes people will >>>> have to start communicating, volunteering and working with others at other >>>> organizations beyond a 1 mile radius of their employer. With last week's >>>> feudalist austerity bill establishing a firm and steep caste system in this >>>> country, there isn't going to be money for this stuff so people will have >>>> to volunteer for stuff like this or it won't happen. >>>> >>>> Thoughts? >>>> >>>> * note that I did this event in 2012 and 2014 without funding and it >>>> worked out great so it CAN be done. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Brian Turner, PhD >>> >>> Department of Environmental Science & Management >>> Portland State University (ESM), PO BOX 751, >>> Portland, OR 97207 >>> Email: bctur...@pdx.edu >>> >>> >> >> ATD of ATB and ISI >> -- >> Aaron T. 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