If you are planning on attending UN/EDIFACT meetings and forums make sure you have a valid passport and a expanded travel budget for travel to places like Switzerland, Senegal, Korea and Mexico. Not too many US companies would pay the bill for technical staff to travel the world to develop standards. http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Regards, David Frenkel
----- Original Message ---- From: Ricardo Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, September 5, 2008 1:26:21 PM Subject: Fw: RE: [EDI-L] Which do you prefer, X12 or EDIFACT? From: Ricardo Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Which do you prefer, X12 or EDIFACT? To: "Emmanuel Hadzipetros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 10:21 AM Haven't we heard enough arguments for companies in the US to at least start experimenting with EDIFACT?: 1. Both standards are just as good and efficient Rachel made a great point here 2. EDIFACT 'guidelines are easy to find on the web and the UN/EDIFACT site, but they¢re free. For all versions.' [Emmanuel's point] Art made a point earlier about X12 guidelines costing less that $600. Although he did specify that it was for the CD-ROM, he forgot to mention that it was for one X12 version only. If you need guidelines for say 3 versions (i.e. 4010, 4050, and 5010) then you'd be spending $1,800 (version 5050 is now $760 by the way). But there's more...the CD-ROM, like the paper guidelines serve only as reference documents during implementation. EDI developers need the digital or 'Table Data' versions of the standards which cost $15,000 for non-members and $5,000 for members, again per version. So if you need Data Tables for the 3 version mentioned before you'd be spending $45,000, unless you become a member and pay only $15,000 ($5,000/ver.). Membership costs from $1,017 up to $7,500 per year depending on company size (measured in sales). Of course, if you're not an EDI software developer like Art, you may be fine with paper or CD-ROM versions, and you may even think that you save your customers lots of money. But they are paying the bill one way or another because most EDI translators include dozens of X12 versions and end up pay hefty fees to DISA for it, just do the math. Unfortunately, these fees do not help reduce the cost and complexity of EDI software. On the other hand, as Emmanuel ponted out EDIFACT Guidelines in all versions and formats including Table Data can be downloaded from the UN website free of charge. 3. EDIFACT is the official standard everywhere but the US and Canada So Isn't it time to give EDIFACT a try. But then again, I remember the 1970's when both the US and Canada were attempting to convert to the metric system....Back to the question: Will EDIFACT ever replace X12? Not unless we try (very) hard! Ricardo --- On Fri, 9/5/08, Emmanuel Hadzipetros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Emmanuel Hadzipetros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Which do you prefer, X12 or EDIFACT? To: "'Jesse Sightler'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'Art Douglas'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 6:58 AM The beauty of EDIFACT standards is not only that guidelines are easy to find on the web and the UN/EDIFACT site, but they¢re free. For all versions. Emmanuel Hadzipetros SAP EDI Consultant Check out my website at: http://sap-idoc2edi-consulting.com/ Read my blog at: http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/sap/ehadzipetros From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jesse Sightler Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 6:54 AM To: Art Douglas Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Which do you prefer, X12 or EDIFACT? I don't think that I understand the difficulty in finding EDIFACT standrds. I just spent about 12 seconds googling and hit their main site: http://www.unece.org/trade/untdid/welcome.htm It seemed to have the standards to me. On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Art Douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Setting aside the Spanish/English argument for the [Off-Topic] discussion, I > prefer X12 for one reason: Documentation. With X12 I can go to one book or > one CD-ROM and find the documentation I need. This is because the X12 > committee and DISA cooperate to get all the documentation in one place. > With EDIFACT, there are so many different agencies contributing that it is > very difficult to find the standard, or even a cohesive presentation of the > standards. People complain that EDIFACT is free, whereas X12 standards cost > hundreds of dollars. Well, I have spent thousands of my clients dollars > trying to track down the EDIFACT standards, whereas one investment in a > CD-ROM for less than $600 has sufficed for all my X12 needs for a long time. > > That being said, EDIFACT is not difficult if you know X12. X12 is not > difficult if you know EDIFACT. Preference for one standard or the other is > probably largely based on which one you learned best. > > Bien? > > Art Douglas > Lead Consultant > Blackwater Network > (877) 464-8915 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Ricardo Johnson > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 2:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Which do you prefer, X12 or EDIFACT? > > X12 has been around much longer that EDIFACT so it's widely used in the US > and Canada, where it started. EDIFACT is much younger and underwent the > normal problems of maturing. But now that they're both just as mature, > robust, and efficient the question: 'Will EDIFACT replace X12 in the > US?' becomes a relevant one. > I'd like to answer it with another question: Will Spanish replace English in > the US? > Like English, X12 is so entrenched in US business culture and systems that > it would be impossible to replace. Yet, as the rest of the world embrases > EDIFACT, more and more US companies, specially those dealing with > international trade, will have to become at least partially bilingual. EDI > bilinguism, like any other should thus evolve as a natural consequence of > influence, usege, and need, not mandates. > In fact, this is already happening: the US Customs bureau, most of the large > automotive and logistics firms, and many others others are using EDIFACT > with their international trading partners. I know for instance Wal-Mart has > been using EDIFACT with all of its TPs in Mexico since 1995, when that > country adopted EDIFACT as their national standard. Is suppose Mexico is not > the only case either. > That said, it would nice to see more companies in the US experimenting with > EDIFACT, after all it's developed and promoted by the United Nations for > global trade and understanding, it's already included in most of the EDI > software, and best of all it's FREE.. > Can't go wrong! > Ricardo Johnson > > . However, like Spanish EDIFACT offers many benefits very rapidly a--- On > Thu, 9/4/08, Chill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Chill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [EDI-L] Which do you prefer, X12 or EDIFACT? > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, September 4, 2008, 9:34 AM > > Just starting this discussion to see which is the preferred EDI format. > I have heard statements from some that "EDIFACT will replace X12 within > the next 5 years" and "X12 is Superior and EDIFACT is Inferior". > I would like to hear the Pros and Cons of both from some of > the "Superior Minds" that frequent this group. > As a little background data, we are using Inovis BizManager (Oracle > Data Base) and the Inovis Mapper product. > We are on a Linux set up using Redhat 4, using Oracle 11i. > > Thank you, > Char > 859-620-3356 > > ------------------------------------ > > ... > Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: > <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, > <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> > > Job postings are welcome, but for job postings or requests for work: > <JOBS> IS REQUIRED in the subject line as a prefix.Yahoo! 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