Dave, your points are very well taken! I agree that most of these
matters need to be dealt with in the contest/operating software.
However I still think that a firmware choice to prevent all but the most
intentional erasure of a message or recording with the KDVR3 would be a
good thing. It is like a computer file, once it is gone it is gone
forever unless there is a backup. If you spend the time to record a
good DVR on the KDVR3 I think having a choice so as to not lose it very
easily would add a lot as a reason to have a KDVR3. I think the same
would hold true of a nice on the air recording you made with the KDVR3.
I don't think this is not as serious as you should be able to play it
on the "line out" and save it on the computer and make backups and have
it for the rest of your life or send it to someone else. Of course if
you don't back it up you could lose it.
Another good use for the KDVR3 would be on a one or two person
DX-pedition, maybe larger. They can have the KDVR3 installed in the K3
and do their messages. With this firmware change they would not have to
be concerned about losing them. Often one or more of the team members
are not that familiar with the radio and could accidentally erase a
message. Generally you just have a laptop on a DX-pedition so using the
KDVR3 would be a great step forward IMHO. My experience from being on
several DX-peditions is that a laptop lacks when it comes to using a
contesting program with one or no com ports, etc.
Personally I can not get very enthused about plugging my microphone into
a computer and then running wires here and there. IMHO it just adds to
the chance of cable problems, etc. but that is personal preference.
This is even more true on a DX-Pedition, forget one cable and you are in
major trouble in the places I have been!!!
So we agree a lot of this should be handled by contesting software but I
think the KDVR3 installed in a K3 should be made as useful as reasonable
possible through the firmware or why sell it? I realize different K3
users have different likes for a KDVR3 but I think they would be
interested in protecting their effort in creating a good DVR message so
it was not easily erased just like your computer operating system gives
you a second chance before you delete something.
I think the beauty of the K3 firmware in that within reason things can
be done to enhance the use of the K3 with the KDVR3. It is not unusual
for me to spend 1 hour getting a "near perfect" DVR message. I would
like to have a way to protect that "near perfect" DVR. However I do
agree with Dave and never intended in trying to make it a SO2R DVR radio
even with two K3's. This is beyond what needs to be done in the K3
firmware and is not fair to the broad spectrum of K3 users most of which
have no interest on SO2R. For that matter I don't do SO2R but some of
the people who operate here do.
There is a downside to getting contesting software to do what you want
it to do and that is you have to convince the authors to do it for the
K3. Sometimes that is not as easy to do as it might seem.
Ed W0SD
Dave Hachadorian wrote:
Before getting too wrapped up in so2r/contesting dvr/mic switching
within the K3, keep in mind that Writelog, and N1MM, and probably other
Windows-based contesting software, already have elegant solutions to
that problem.
You connect your mic to MONO MIC IN of the sound card, and STEREO LINE
OUT from the sound card to the radios' LINE IN, with left channel going
to the left radio, and right channel going to the right radio. Mic is
muted when messages are playing. Messages can be re-recorded on the fly.
Different messages can be stored in the voice of the different
operators. Different messages can be used for S&P vs. CQ mode. With this
setup, you don't need to connect a mic directly to the K3.
Just some thoughts to keep the issue in perspective.
Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Gray W0SD" <w...@triotel.net>
To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:49 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] KDVR3 Firmware request
First a little back ground as Wayne probably has not read the line-In
+ Mic discussion.
When one uses the computer for a DVR for contesting an easy way to do
it is to take advantage of the Line Input but given one also wants to
use the mic for operating then the "MIC" is hot during the playing of
the DVR. For SO2R there are added issues of switching the DVR from
the computer and the mic between the two radios. Lyle KK7P pointed
out that an external program could easily set the active Tx audio path
from MIC to LINE IN, send the audio, then switch the Tx audio path
back to MIC. The problem is to get your program author to make those
changes for the K3 but definitely an option!
I am thinking the KDVR3 is a better way to go to cure the "hot" mic
and associated sound card problems. It also should get rid of the
"black box" for SO2R DVR with two radios with a KDVR3 in each radio.
You still have the issue of switching the mic between two radio.
Given there are 8 messages available with the KDRV3 that would be
enough for different contests and one could have some for guest
operators. I assume once you choose the "second" bank you stay there
and you don't have to tap rec/M1, rec/m2, etc. each time to use what I
would call message 5 and 6. It takes us a long time to get a DVR that
is "high quality, does not have pauses, starts right, ends promptly,
has the right amount of enthusiasm etc. What I am saying is once you
have a good one you want to save it for future use.
KDVR3 Firmware request: Would it be possible to have a KDVR3 menu
item where you could set it so you could not record over the top, ie
erase,an existing message without going back and changing this menu item?
Another reason for this request is if I understand what I read that
doing over the air recording would erase an existing message if the
buffer is full. It would be better if the on the air recording and
play back used separate memory but I don't think that is the case or
for that matter realistic. I apologize if it already works this way.
Anyway it seems to me there could be some conflict with using the on
the air record function and accidentally erasing DVR messages.
Obviously there is the "mistake" category where you accidentally
record over/erase a message and that is why a firmware choice to
prevent this would be a nice feature. Basically like the computer
message with the second chance "DO you really want to do this" idea.
There are a lot of on the air contest DVR's messages that are
horrible! Here at W0SD we don't ever want to have one of those so we
spend a lot of time getting a good one and even then one has to be
careful that other factors such as sound card problems, ground loops,
etc. don't mess things up. Of course there is the issue of getting
the levels and sound between the DVR and the Mic to sound the same.
That is why I would like to have a firmware choice to preventing
erasing a good message on the KDVR3 without being very intentional
about it.
There was a request to use the computer key board to play the message
and that has merit rather than tapping the M1, etc. button on the K3
but I can see where this at best would involve making it available to
programmers but this would be a good thing. When you go to SO2R with
two K3's this is also a contest software job but having it available
to programmers would be a good thing.
Conclusion: I am thinking the KDVR3 really has a market for contesters
especially with the firmware taking care of some things while at the
same time not messing things up for the operators who mainly want the
KDVR3 to record for on the air play back or I assume you can go to
"TEST" mode and send to line out and record on your computer, etc. to
save or send to others to listen to.
This just got me thinking: I wonder if it could be possible to send a
DVR from the computer on the line in and be recorded by the KDVR3.
This would be a relatively fast way of getting a DVR into the K3?
Maybe it is but if so I missed it.
Ed W0SD
Ed W0SD
Thanks,
Ed W0SD
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