On Jan 25, 2010, at 2:24 PM, John C. Welch wrote:
> 
> 1) Stop thinking about IMAP as if it were some cohesive standard with a
> consistent implementation. It is not. It's a bloody mess that manages to
> work in spite of its implementations, and Google's IMAP implementation is
> one of the worst I've seen in the last 12 years I've been working with IMAP
> servers. As an example, here, supported feature lists by server:
<snip>
> There's no such thing as a standard IMAP implementation.

Bleh.  Well, that's irritating.  I didn't realize the landscape was quite that 
fragmented...

> 2) Regardless of who this project is aimed at, people using it are going to
> get email from "icky" sources, like Outlook users who have no control over
> their email format. (You think I'm kidding about this. I'm not. You should
> see how bizarre an overly locked-down windows shop can be.) They won't have
> the option to get the sender to change format, so in addition to "normal"
> HTML, you should start thinking about building in TNEF decoding. In fact, if
> you do this well, it would be a monster point in the application's favor,
> since that's a major problem for people in the real world.

++

TNEF is a royal pain.  I have to wonder, though, if there's some serious hurdle 
preventing Thunderbird (for instance) from including a TNEF decoder by 
default--perhaps Microsoft has some sort of (*ick*) patent on it?

> 5) Cocoa is a design/programming methodology. It does not make the
> application (not)suck. Since it's a Mac client, Cocoa is a given, and that's
> really all the discussion it should have had. Namely, none. What you all
> *really* seem to mean is "Should this be an Objective C application ver.
> Some other language" and I think the obvious answer there is yes. It's a Mac
> app, ObjC has real advantages there, and I say this as someone utterly
> unimpressed with the 15 year rut computer programming has been forced into
> by the language wars. There are better things to care about. Having said
> that, language choice should be solely based on appropriateness to the task.
> Using this as a tech demo for <new exciting cool language> is completely
> wrong for an application that is going to be more than a programmer's toy.

The right language and API for writing a native Mac app is Objective-C/Cocoa.  
It is not a cool toy language, it is not going anywhere, and it is what code 
has, I think, already been started writing in.

> 7) AppleScript is a must. That's not the ONLY way to automate things, and it
> shouldn't be here, but a well-done scripting implementation, (and for
> DEITY$'s sake, NOT APPLE'S! Mail/AB/iCal have the most craptacular scripting
> implementations ever. Mail's one good point is scriptable rules. Other than
> that, take a look at Entourage, it has a fantastic scripting implementation
> that you can do some pretty scary stuff with. (Or just plain evil. I wrote a
> script that converts messages in Entourage to structured PDF through Acrobat
> just to prove that Adobe was full of crap when they said you couldn't do
> this on a Mac. They were less than happy about it. Which of course, was the
> idea.) This application is not going to only interact with shell scripts and
> the handful of jstalk applications. It's going to have to work with a huge
> range of applications, and for that, you need AppleScript. (All arguments
> about syntax quality or lack thereof will be mocked for: Point, you missed
> it. As will "BUT WHAT ABOUT <OTHER> LANGUAGE!. Multiple languages are good.)
> If nothing else, it gives you a great way to see what the next version's new
> features should be. If a lot of people are scripting something, that's a
> hint. 

Err...most of your points I get (I don't always agree, but I get ;-) ), but 
this one seems a little incoherent to me.

I will try and summarize what I think I understand from this, and hope you will 
confirm or correct (or complete):
- You want robust and pervasive scripting support
- You want it to support AppleScript
- You want it to at least optionally support other languages
- You want the scripts to be able to do amazing and powerful things

> 6) Per-account reply options. My work account has to be top-post, everything
> else I bottom post.

I would go further and say per-folder.

> 10) Plugins with a well-documented architecture, yes. Plugins with "here's
> some source, that's all you need", no.
> 
> 11) Documentation. It's still important.

++

> 6) I could care less about external editors, and actually hate the concept.
> (Do YOU get gobs of email composed in Word? I do, and it sucks. It allll
> sucks. Bad idea. BAAAAAAD idea.)

I don't think anyone's suggesting Word.  BBEdit, yes.  Word, no.

> 7) Power User != Programmer, Power User != Programmer, Power User !=
> Programmer, Power User != Programmer, Power User != Programmer, Power User
> != Programmer, Power User != Programmer. There, point made.

But is the purpose of Letters to be an email client for "Power Users", or an 
email client for Programmers?

Timothy Collett

--

Yesterday it worked
Today it is not working
Windows is like that
~haiku~

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