Peter: Let me answer your questions and then I have a question for you. "FLOWERDEW, Peter" wrote:
> > > I am reading this thread in the UK. I am a trained marksman, trained > by our police, but I can not believe what I am reading. How many > murders per day in New York? Unless you count the murders at the World Trade center where there were no guns involved, about 200 per year. How does that compare with London? > How many in any European capital? > How many school massacres in USA? Per capita about as many as Germany. > How many in Europe? In Europe the police carry guns, not the next guy > who is going to object to my driving. My question for Peter is since Europe has had many extermination camps in the last century, who at the extermination camps had guns and who did not? Lots of guns in America but no extermination camps. Do think there might be a connection? Fred Townsend > > > I also happen to be a karate instructor, a professional doorman > (bouncer) and I train nurses and counsellors, working with addicts and > alcoholics off the streets, in low-arousal defence techniques and > situation de-escalation - as well as being an FIEE emc engineer. I get > scared in Houston at night (that's where an English engineer got lost, > knocked on the door of a house to ask directions and was shot dead > through the door - anyone want to talk to his wife?), but in four > years I have never faced a gun on the nightclub doors in Bristol. > Also, our gun enthusiasts do not own handguns, combat rifles or > pump-action shotguns - they still have fun. > > I will not be the only UK professional reading this thread and from > the reactions in my company, which is American owned, the ease with > which people are willing to deprive another human of their life is > shocking. > > All that said, I do not see what the topic has to do with meeting > health and safety regulations. Which standard are you referring to? > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Davis [mailto:sda...@ptitest.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:51 PM > To: Gert Gremmen; Pettit, Ghery; 'Ted Rook'; < > Subject: RE: stun guns on aircraft > > > This has nothing to do with EMC or Product safety, but with personal > and > public safety. > > I'm with Ghery. Gert, your misrepresentation of his statement is > ludicrous. > Statistics bear this out. Crime rates drop drastically in nations > where > guns are freely owned by the PUBLIC. Look at Australia. The gov't > took the > gun ownership rights away, and violent crime rose horribly. > > Guns are not only offensive weapons, but defensive weapons as well. > If some > criminal approaches your wife with a gun, would you prefer her to have > a > pistol, or a whistle? > > What do you want your cops to defend your streets with? What about > your > military, to guard your ability to go to work, make a living, support > your > family, without having to worry if you'll be a captive prisoner of > war, or > worse? What about the security force at your airport? > > Guns even the playing field. > > When you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns. Law abiding citizens > turn > them in, and can no longer defend their homes with the NECESSARY > force. > Fortunately, I live in a locale where gun ownership is not only > allowed, but > almost expected. Statistically, there are more guns than people per > household. There is also a very low rate of home invasion. > Since concealed carry permits have been issued, all violent crimes > have > dropped. > > Hijackers take planes because law-abiding travelers are not packing > heat. > > I own multiple guns, legally, and I pray I never have to fire them in > self > defense, but I pray I don't have to use my AD&D policy either. > > BTW, Ted, your statement "Unfortunately America was taken by force and > is > defended by force and is unlikely ever to change", I disagree with > your > first syllable. The reason we're the prime superpower is because the > world > knows we will use it if we have to. The reason our allies like us is > because we've got their back, (and we've thrown billions of dollars to > bail > them out without actually expecting payback, but that's a completely > different thread). > > Remember grade school, who got picked on? The kid that couldn't (or > wouldn't) defend himself. The guys that were obviously able to return > > injury never had to fight. Think about that. > > If any of my statements offend you because of your national pride, I'm > > sorry. My national pride is what brought me in here. I mean no > offense to > your nation, just your government's anti-gun laws. > > My opinions are my own, but I know my boss will back me. He's a > member, > too. > > Proud member of the National Rifle Association, standing with my > brothers, > supporting our constitutional right to protect ourselves until the > cops are > able to arrive. > > Sam > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gert Gremmen > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:25 AM > To: Pettit, Ghery; 'Ted Rook'; < > Subject: RE: stun guns on aircraft > > > So Ghery, > > Please let us all know your future flight schedual, so > we can avoid sharing the same plane ... > > As you might know, yesterday, in analogy to USA 1963 Kennedy, a > Netherlands Prime Minister kandidate , Pim Fortuin, > a fighter for the rights for free speaking, to the degree > that he attacked laws against discrimination, was > killed by a such representative of the TRUE FREE MEN . > > I supposed , Ghery , that your interpretation of being > a FREE man is not limited to the WORD... > > Gert Gremmen > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery > Sent: dinsdag 7 mei 2002 01:24 > To: 'Ted Rook'; < > Subject: RE: stun guns on aircraft > > > I've resisted jumping in in this fashion, but - > > FREE MEN OWN GUNS! > > Those who will trade essential freedoms for temporary security deserve > > neither - Benjamin Franklin. > > Folks, the 2nd Amendment pre-dates the wild west by a long time. > Those of > us who value our RIGHTS are tired of the wimps in the world trying to > take > them away. > > Ghery S. Pettit > Life Member, National Rifle Association > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ted Rook [mailto:t...@crestaudio.com] > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:08 PM > To: < > Subject: stun guns on aircraft > > > and other safety considerations > > keep the hijackers off planes using ground security > > an airplane in flight is not the place to have gun fights > > too many lives are at risk > > the first priority is to get the plane safely on the ground, anywhere > > then at least the passengers have a chance > > Most citizens of most countries enjoy the security that comes from > having > thrashed out land rights, territorial disputes, and the systems of law > and > law enforcement before firearms were invented. > > America is one of the few places in the West that relies on firearms > as a > negotiating tool. > This is poor judgement. > Firearms are offensive weapons not negotiating tools. > Giving someone a gun escalates an already dangerous situation. > Now you want the pilot to not only assure the safety of the plane but > also > be an effective executioner. > Asking too much IMHO. > Unfortunately America was taken by force and is defended by force and > is > unlikely ever to change. > > >
