Well, is power level a determining factor for safety or is it not? The good doctor does not make any point about power level, but simply warns against the use of cell phones.
George ________________________________ From: Fred Townsend [mailto:ftowns...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:36 PM To: Tang, George Cc: Derek Walton; Lothar Schmidt; IEEE EMC Discussion Group Subject: Re: Another Cancer Scare? Good point George. However I must point out blue tooth is much lower power at least twice the frequency, close to microwave ovens (another can of worms). Again I say this appears to be solicitation for a research grant. Fred Townsend DC to Light Tang, George wrote: By the way, the latest warning came from Dr. Ronald B. Herberman, director of the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, talking to reporters on his CELL PHONE via a Bluetooth headset. Dr. Herberman also recommended others to do the same by using a wireless headset when talking on the cell. Now does Dr. Herberman not understand that a wireless headset also has a transmitting ANTENNA located right next to his HEAD and bombards his HEAD with EM WAVES? Or is this just a bad commercial to sell wireless headsets? Has he been paid to make these warnings? George Tang From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 12:58 PM To: Lothar Schmidt Cc: Fred Townsend; Tang, George; IEEE EMC Discussion Group Subject: Re: Another Cancer Scare? Not wanting to appear silly, or spread rumors, but some of the thinking behind the potential for EM cancers was explained to me as follows: Cancers are mutant forms of normal cells. Such mutations occur when the cell reproduces. That process is more likely in the young, or where tissues are repairing. This is separate from cell damage through heating most often being considered when power levels are discussed. Part of the reproduction process is un-encoding the cell structure from the DNA, and that is influenced by fields which if great enough cause non intended cell structure. Usually the fields are magnetic because they penetrate deeper into skin tissue. Exposing non developing cells to fields would obviously never exhibit problems. A huge level of research to date has done just that... Other research is specifically looking at the influence on developing cells, I'm not sure yet how much of that is public domain. Again, I stress this comes from an aging guy... I may be remembering incorrectly, or understood the explanation wrong. We live in interesting times. Cheers, Derek Walton L F Research Lothar Schmidt wrote: Just for clarification, Cell phones with GSM technology transmit with 2W burst power @ 850MHz and with 1W burst power @1900 MHz CDMA and WCDMA technology uses 200mW output power. Regarding the influence of cell phones to a human being. My opinion is, that there are millions of cell phones used for so many years by a huge number of people and many of them seem to have the phone glued to the ear. If there is any impact we should have seen a significant increase in certain areas like cancer. This didn't happen therefore I believe the influence is close to none. Best Regards *Lothar Schmidt** *Director Regulatory & Antenna Services *CETECOM Inc.* 411 Dixon Landing Road Milpitas, CA 95035 Phone +1 (408) 586 6214 Fax +1 (408) 586 6299 email lothar.schm...@cetecomusa.com <mailto:lothar.schm...@cetecomusa.com> <mailto:lothar.schm...@cetecomusa.com> //This e-mail may contain proprietary, privileged and confidential information for the sole use of the named intended recipient. Any review or distribution of this e-mail by any party other than the intended recipient or that person's agent is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete all copies and immediately contact the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient.// ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *On Behalf Of *Fred Townsend *Sent:* Friday, July 25, 2008 11:37 AM *To:* Tang, George *Cc:* Derek Walton; IEEE EMC Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: Another Cancer Scare? George, I'm no medical expert either but I think I understand a few laws of physics, Gauss's law, and Maxwell's equations in particular. If there is to be any effect on the human body, surely it must be directly from the magnetism or indirectly from the induced currents. To the best of my knowledge there never has been a demonstrated effect on the human body by magnetism. That leaves induced currents. Many ham and commercial handy talkies (HT) can put out 5 watts. When used, the rubber ducky runs right by the face or ears. From personal experiments I can say looking directly at the sun causes a noticeable heating effect while using my 5 watt HT @ 146MHz at night doesn't. The skin effect (not to be confused with human skin) means that almost none of the energy penetrates the skull at 146 MHz. If it doesn't penetrate, how can it cause an effect? As you point out modern cell phones put out much less power (<100 mW). Since the skin effect is much greater at cell phone frequencies, I don't think there is a snowball's chance of a cell phone causing damage to any part of the body with the possible exception of the eyes. There is anecdotal evidence that looking at a functional cell phone while driving can cause injury and even death to the whole body. Fred Townsend DC to Light Tang, George wrote: My personal opinion is that the research findings MAY have some valid points, however, the data they have is way out-dated. We know that in the late '80s, people use mobile phones that put out several watts of radiated power. In the early '90s when cell phones were just starting to appear on the market, most of them were still putting out more than 1 watt of radiated power. We have heard of technicians who worked on LAN equipment while talking on the cell phone, and the cell phone radiation induced data error in the Ethernet lines. Those were the days when the cell phone transmitted too much power. In the last few years, the goal of achieving longer talk time, thus lower power consumption, and the use of low voltage electronics due to the widely incorporation of sub-micron transistors have limited the cell phone transmitted power down to low mW range. The research is so f ar behind the improvements in technology that their findings are out-dated by the ne w products on the market today. Of course, I am not a medical expert in the cancer field, and I do not design or manufacture cell phones, so I certainly cannot speak for the experts in these areas. But I do know that these findings most likely are not applicable to the products out on the market today. George Tang -----Original Message----- From: emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Fred Townsend Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:09 PM To: Derek Walton Cc: IEEE EMC Discussion Group Subject: Re: Another Cancer Scare? I heard the interview. The doctor appeared to dodge the question as to proof. He did say more research was needed (Ignoring this subject has already been extensively researched.). It appeared to be a blatant attempt to get research funding. Fred Townsend DC to Light Derek Walton wrote: Does anyone know more about the research spoken about in the BBC news artical? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7523109.stm Is it really new unpublisged research or just rehashing the old? Sincerely, Derek Walton L F Research - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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