My response and Mr. Woodgate’s crossed, and are largely similar in content.
But I slightly demur on this statement: “Since we can't even train cops (in US and even Britain) not to use lethal force when it's totally unjustified, It will probably be a very long time before robot AI is trustworthy enough to go armed.” While I can’t speak for the UK, I suspect it is a largely similar situation to the US, in that police are basically patrolling enemy territory when they are called on to make split-second life-and-death decisions under what amounts to battlefield conditions. Police are meant as a “thin blue line” to protect civilized society from a small percentage of bad actors. When police are placed in a situation where the majority or at least a significant minority of the surrounding population see them as an occupying force, they (the police) are acting outside the traditional police job description. Just as in urban fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan, where US and allied forces were placed in a similar untenable situation being attacked by enemies while being hamstrung by rules protecting against collateral damage, a very appealing solution is to remove soldiers/police and replace them with radio-controlled substitutes. I see this as a major growth industry in the US/UK/EC unless the lawless element is somehow persuaded to respect the norms of civilized society, or forcibly removed from it. I’m betting on the “robots.” Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> Reply-To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 22:18:10 +0100 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Friday Question The definition is clearly out-of-date; it doesn't even cover an autonomous lawn-mower. The police device wasn't a robot, let alone an autonomous one. They could have used an unmanned police vehicle or a shopping trolley. There are no ethical issues beyond the general one of the justification of lethal force. Autonomous robots with lethal weapons are a very different kettle of ethical fish. Since we can't even train cops (in US and even Britain) not to use lethal force when it's totally unjustified, It will probably be a very long time before robot AI is trustworthy enough to go armed. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 9:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Friday Question All I haven't done one of these Friday questions in a few years so I thought I would toss one out... With the many recent updates to safety standards that the incorporate provisions for safety risk assessment, I find the topic of misuse and intentional misuse often comes up in RA team meetings. My question is if there are any valid elements within this news article that could be included in those meetings when working with autonomous or semi-autonomous robotics? > > > http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/what-dallass-shooting-means-for-the-ethi > cs-of-robotics/ ISO 8373 defines robot as "An automatically controlled, reprogrammable, multipurpose manipulator programmable in three or more axes, which may be either fixed in place or mobile for use in industrial automation applications." Now I realize the context of the news article is not industrial and possibly this definition needs updating. I have had opportunity to do certification work with unmanned aerial robots (not drones) to UL 1740 and RIA R15_06-1999, both of which UL has had some involvement. Any thoughts? -- Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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