I’m going to make some measurements to gauge the effects.
Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" <g.grem...@cetest.nl> Reply-To: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" <g.grem...@cetest.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 07:04:31 +0100 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Conversation: [PSES] Bulk Current Injection Subject: Re: [PSES] Bulk Current Injection I have no definite answer either but a few suggestions…. · To prevent RF current to flow away (re-radiate) from the test setup though the capacitance between cable and clamp. Necessary of the generator is "remote". · The opposite: get rid of common mode voltages on the generator (=amplifier) output that might couple in on the cable under test There is probably not a real reason, but the decision was part of was thought to be good craftsmanship. Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen Approvals manager ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment + Independent Consultancy Services + Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking according to EC-directives: - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC - Medical Devices 93/42/EC - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing + Education Web: www.cetest.nl (English) Phone : +31 10 415 24 26 ------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above. Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete the material from any computer. Thank you for your co-operation. From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday 11 November 2016 04:28 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Bulk Current Injection Does anyone on this forum know why the current injection clamp must be grounded? I can’t think of a reason for that. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 ________________________________________ From: "Kunde, Brian" <brian_ku...@lecotc.com> Reply-To: "Kunde, Brian" <brian_ku...@lecotc.com> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 15:22:39 +0000 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Conversation: [PSES] Bulk Current Injection Subject: Re: [PSES] Bulk Current Injection Three things to keep in mind with the 61000-4-6 Conducted Immunity test when using clamps; 1. There two types of clamps; The Current Clamp which must be grounded via the BNC connector and a short strap to the Reference Ground Plane, and The EM clamp which most commercially available models have grounding pads on the bottom which touches the Reference ground plane; so with these the ground strap is not needed. 2. The entire Test Setup must not be directly grounded to Earth or the Ground Reference Plane. The entire EUT is slightly floating off of ground through the impedance created by the CDNs and placed on 10cm platforms above the GRP. 3. There must always be at least TWO coupling devices in the test setup (see reason below). You must provide a loop or return path for the energy you are injecting. If you are testing an EUT with no I/O and only one port with a CDN attached, then you must add a second CDN (CDN-M1) to the chassis ground of the EUT to the Ground Plane. If the EUT has a dedicated ground earth terminal, you can connect a CDN-M1 from it to the Ground Plane. If the EUT does not have a ground (Class 2 device or all plastic chassis) then you can wrap the EUT in aluminum foil and connect it to the ground plane via a CDN-M1. The only setup picture in the standard that really shows this configuration in Figure F.2. Note without the CDN-M1 the EUT would only have one CDN attached. Like I said before; you must have at least two CDN devices in the test setup. It would be most difficult to do in an In-Situ setup for the 4-6 test. If you cannot keep the EUT from shorting directly to ground, either directly or through one of the EUTs, then you cannot do the test. The Standard does not give a test setup for in-situ testing. See section 7.7 when using a clamp where you cannot met the common mode impedance requirements: “When using clamp injection, and the common mode impedance requirements cannot be met at the AE side, it is necessary that the common mode impedance of the AE be less than or equal to the common mode impedance of the EUT port being tested. If not, measures shall be taken (e.g. by using a CDN-M1 or 150 resistor from the AE to ground) at the AE port to satisfy this condition and to prevent resonances” I hope this was helpful. The Other Brian From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 10:14 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Bulk Current Injection Are you using the 2013 edition of IEC 61000-4-6? It's certainly a bit confusing. Figure 5 shows the strap without any qualification about its use, but Figure 14 says 'if needed'. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: David [mailto:000000fdec74198b-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:14 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Bulk Current Injection All, I’m trying to learn more about Bulk current injection. I’ve read Javor’s Field to Wire Coupling papers, as well as -4-6, ISO 11452-4, SAE J1113-4, and CS114. I’m primarily interested in grounding, and the differences between -4-6 and the rest. -4-6 requires that the injection probe or clamp is grounded with a short ground strap. MIL STD, ISO, and SAE don’t do so. I would assume it’s due to the difference between a test simulating commercial AC powered equipment versus vehicle mounted equipment. I’d like a more thorough understanding of why. Also, if I do not ground the BCI probe during -4-6, say during an in situ test on an elevated cable, what would the result be? An under test, over test, or unknown? For large equipment would it make sense to tie it to the chassis? David - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> ________________________________________ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
