Those, too. I didn't say that the DP switch is a safety issue, it's a reliability or durability issue. When IEC/EN 60065 required DP switches on TVs, I pointed out the implications of a short-circuit, and proposed that the product's fuse be connected upstream of the switch. Although I was 'Head of Audio', not TV, that was adopted, with a label 'LIVE FUSE'. With regard to the stored energy in L-N and L-E capacitors, the maximum amount is limited in safety standards, not necessarily directly in joules. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 4:58 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Double Pole Mains Switches, Cord Connected Products FWIW, the same applies to the 10/16A 2-pin plugs, most of which also reversible. However, there are some national exceptions, notably in Denmark, Switzerland & Italy which have some unique plug/socket combinations of their own – some of those are reversible and some are not. Not sure I agree with there being an inherent safety issue in fitting d/p switches to appliances for the reason JW mentions – but there is, or at least used sometimes to be, another and rather odd one related to EMC filters = if these don’t have L-N bleeder resistors and are fitted between the switch and the plug there can be stored energy in the caps after the plug is removed from the socket with the switch set to OFF (“O”)! Not enough to give you more than a mild electric shock, but still enough to make you “jump” and let go of the appliance – not a good idea if it is somewhat heavy and then falls on your foot :D (not a myth – it HAS happened, and with painful consequences!) Same thing can happen if the mains cord set is removable and you then happen to touch the pins of the male appliance connector on the appliance! John E Allen W. London, UK From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: 28 January 2017 16:32 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Double Pole Mains Switches, Cord Connected Products ALL European 2-pin 6 A plugs are reversible, and 3-contact plugs used on the Continent are reversible (there are two kinds, one with 2 power pins and side-contact for earth (called 'Schuko') and one with a third pin for earth). The standards you cite are written so that the product is safe, whichever way round the plug is inserted. You do not need a double-pole switch; in fact that can be a disadvantage, as it brings the two power conductors close together in an assembly with mechanical movement. A short-circuit at some stage in the life of the device is not improbable. Also, the insulation can fail, usually with smoke and small-scale flame, accompanied by a loud noise. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Mike Sherman ----- Original Message ----- [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 4:17 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Double Pole Mains Switches, Cord Connected Products Because of the lack of polarization on many 2 pin European plugs, I have always recommended double pole mains switches on cord connected products for the EU market. However, I am not finding support for this in standards such as 60335-1, 60601-1 or 62368-1. Your thoughts will be appreciated, oh experienced group, on: --safety issue involved --standards that do require double pole (sometimes referred to as "all-pole") mains switches. Mike Sherman Graco Inc. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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- ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
