Ditto. And not just for Scott, but everyone on this listserv should be thankful and appreciative of the free, expert advice provided.
Best Regards, John John Allen Product Safety Consulting, Inc www.productsafetyinc.com > On Jul 24, 2017, at 12:22 AM, Pete Perkins > <00000061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > > Scott, > I hope that you realize how fortunate you are that you have a professional > colleague like Chuck who will take the time to walk you thru all of the > intricate details of this issue. > > Most folks learn the hard way - trial and error. > > :>) br, Pete > > Peter E Perkins, PE > Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant > PO Box 23427 > Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 > > 503/452-1201 > > p.perk...@ieee.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 9:25 AM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonized standard withdrawn > > Dear Chuck, > > Thanks for sharing! Nice to have met you! > > Best regards, > > Scott > > > On 22/7/2017, 10:53 PM, "Chuck Seyboldt" <seybo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear Scott: > > My experience about client (manufacturer, usually) > companies' expectations about territorial validity of my advice > is varied. Some of them have one-off projects going to a known > destination country. Others have products with indefinite > destination. The product will be made available via a > distributor in the community, and purchases come from "wherever," > with that being possibly any of the EU and EFTA countries. > > Most of my clients who hear about "CE" for the first > time, come to a belief that "CE" catches everything, everywhere > in the EU and EFTA. Not that they know about EFTA, just that > they think "CE" is some sort of EU passport, one size fits all. > For general talking purposes, their belief is both okay. > > The problem is that real life doesn't allows follow the > general rule or the gross simplification. As an expert, your > client expects YOU to know the difference. That is why they hire > you. Some will assume that your positive test report is all they > need to justify "CE," and that's it. Done. Legal in all the EU. > See the Directive, see the test report, my expert "Certified my > product legal in the EU." > > Many also think your test report makes them > lawsuit-proof, and that your company is now responsible for their > design. That isn't true either, but it is a very common belief. > > Also as an expert, you have to adjust your message for > the client and product in front of you. It doesn't work to give > everybody the whole book of requirements and exceptions. You > might as well point them to the EUROPA website, and say, "the > requirements are in there." > > I make a point to educate my clients about territorial > quirks that apply, if there are any, but only what applies to > their product. The mercury-wetted slip ring is a REAL example. > Forbidden in some countries, has nothing to do with a CE Marking > law. It is rare for me to confront a product that has elemental > mercury, so I rarely advise clients of this exception. > > That the standards have National Differences is very > helpful to the expert. Otherwise the expert would have to study > the national laws in all the countries. > > With respect to the extent of a market territory, the > original point of CE Marking was for exactly the commercial > purpose you suggested. Selling a UK product in Germany and > France and Spain and Italy and so on. Before CE, manufacturers > had to investigate the laws of 28 countries, and maybe apply 5 > different standards (and maybe make 5 different products) to > cover the same 28 countries. > > I live and work out of the US, and give the example to my > clients as basic tutorial about "CE," what if a toaster for > Indiana was not legal in New York? That was the situation in the > EU, before CE Marking. > > Regards, > Chuck Seyboldt > > (207) 893-0352 > (207) 838-4026 Cellular > (800) 893-8142 Facsimile > > At 10:15 (-0000) on 17.07.22, Scott Xe wrote: > >> Hi Chuck, >> >> Appreciate your detail explanation! You are very experience in >> this area! Absolutely important, we must clear it up before >> the contract is signed off. >> >> As you mentioned the general perception of CE marking, the >> product can be sold in EU all 28 countries. Is it really an >> expectation from the buyers and the users? Can an UK product >> be sold to Germany? I doubt the commercial people will do so! >> A product can be sold to all 28 member countries is a long term >> vision, probably not now! Do the people believe they can do so >> in EU? If they do, we do not need to tell them all the details >> about ND and always test the products to all NDs regardless of >> which country of EU to go. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott > > >> On 22/7/2017, 9:48 PM, "Chuck Seyboldt" <seybo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Dear Scott: >> >> What I meant by that was to describe a legal relationship >> between a standard and a country, and that relationship in the >> context you described of a competitive test house not wanting to >> unnecessarily jack up prices. >> >> I am picturing a hypothetical standard. That standard >> has a general part, and several "National Differences" parts. I >> took it that you wanted to know how to deal with this situation, >> faced with a customer, and maybe the customer and maybe you and >> maybe neither knowing which countries the product would be sold >> in. >> >> I say that either you educate the customer, because >> whether he says it or not, he is naive about the legal >> relationship between the standard and the countries and he >> expects you to tell him how his unstated expectations might not >> be met. In other words, you tell him he can affix the CE >> marking, and he assumes this is the same as you telling him he >> can now legally sell in all of he Community countries. >> >> When his goods are impounded at the Swedish border, and >> he is told they are illegal because they have a mercury-wetted >> slip ring, he is going to ask you to pay for his unexpected >> costs. >> >> Back to my cryptic statement, this is the sort of thing >> you should tell him before he contracts with you for testing: >> >> Standard No. EN 12345-6-78 Applies >> Testing to EN 12345-6-78, good for all countries EXCEPT >> Sweden, Denmark, and Poland >> Cost = $ 9,876.55 >> >> Additional Testing required for Sweden and Denmark >> Cost = $1,111.11 >> >> Additional Testing required for Poland >> Cost = $ 432.42 >> >> Now he knows the territorial limits of your test report >> (driven by National Differences in the standard), and if he wants >> to sell in Sweden, it's on him to ask you what is special about >> Sweden. >> >> Regards, >> Chuck Seyboldt >> >> (207) 893-0352 >> (207) 838-4026 Cellular >> (800) 893-8142 Facsimile >> >> At 09:24 (-0000) on 17.07.22, Scott Xe wrote: >> >>> Dear Chuck, >>> >>> What is exact meaning of the general report that covers XYZ >>> countries, and National Differences in Country A adds $$, >>> Country B adds $$, etc.? Are they different countries for >>> general part and national differences? To the buyers, they are >>> only interested in the products that legally sell to their >>> markets. >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> On 22/7/2017, 8:52 PM, "Chuck Seyboldt" <seybo...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Dear Scott: >>> >>> On that issue, National Differences, if you have told your >>> customer you are an expert on European Compliance, they will >>> expect expert advice. If National Differences affects their >>> ability to sell, they will expect you will have advised them >>> of the limits associated with your report. >>> >>> It is obviously best to tell them in advance that the >>> general report covers XYZ countries, and National Differences in >>> Country A adds $$, Country B adds $$, etc. >>> >>> Basically, pass the buck to your customers and potential >>> customers, by informing and educating them. >>> >>> If you, the expert, don't cover this ground, and their >>> products are barred from some country, they will be unhappy. The >>> ramifications of this are highly variable. Lawsuits over this >>> type of subject are common. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Chuck Seyboldt >>> >>> (207) 893-0352 >>> (207) 838-4026 Cellular >>> (800) 893-8142 Facsimile >>> >>> At 07:49 (-0000) on 17.07.22, Scott Xe wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Steli, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your advice! Do National Differences mean National >>>> conditions and National deviations normally in Annex of the >>>> standard? >>>> >>>> How can a testing house ignore the National Differences? I >>>> dare to guest the applicants may not decide where the goods to >>>> be sold when applies for the testing. Thus the testing house >>>> either does not test the national differences or test all >>>> national differences. As a commercial testing house, testing >>>> them all will increase the testing charges reducing their >>>> competitive edge on the market. If the applicant indicates the >>>> destined market, the testing house cannot avoid the testing to >>>> national differences and deviations. The buyer must be careful >>>> to accept the supplier’s evidence when they receive those >>>> testing report and see if it fits for purpose. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/7/2017, 6:01 PM, "Steli Loznen" <rshap...@post.tau.ac.il> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Scott, >>>> In addition to the Mr. Woodgate comment, please be informed that in the >>>> frame of the CB Scheme need to pay attention to "National Differences" on >>>> IEC standards. This is an important issue which not all time is addressed >>>> by the testing houses which issue the CB Test Reports. >>>> Best Regards, >>>> Steli >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE >>>> Member of BoG IEEE-PSES >>>> Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354 >>>> 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. >>>> Tel Aviv 6436719 >>>> Israel >>>> Tel:+972-3-6912668 >>>> Fax:+972-3-6913988 >>>> Mobile:+972-54-7245794 >>>> e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:54 AM >>>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >>>> Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn >>>> >>>> Dear John, >>>> >>>> It is a good point to note! >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/7/2017, 4:37 PM, "John Woodgate" <jmw1...@btinternet.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The EN and the IEC are *never* identical, especially now that the >>>> ENs have to include a succession of 'Z' annexes. Large parts of the >>>> technical content may well be identical, but the ENs include a lot of >>>> European 'baggage', which can't safely be ignored. >>>> >>>> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only >>>> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England >>>> >>>> Sylvae in aeternum manent. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: 22 July 2017 09:13 >>>> To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn >>>> >>>> Hi John, >>>> >>>> I notice the CB reports that they will conduct the test according to >>>> IEC standard and the standards for destined market, i.e. EN for EU. As >>>> usual, EN standards are derived from IEC standard. If the IEC standard is >>>> listed below the EN standard without indication of modified, the IEC >>>> compliance report can be used as self-declaration of conformity to the >>>> directive due to the fact that both EN and IEC standards are identical. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/7/2017, 2:24 PM, "John Woodgate" <jmw1...@btinternet.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> That isn't a 'listing' of the IEC standards, it's an indication >>>> of what the EN was derived from. You can see that, because some of the IEC >>>> standards are described as '(modified)'. >>>> >>>> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only >>>> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England >>>> >>>> Sylvae in aeternum manent. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: 22 July 2017 03:53 >>>> To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>; >>>> EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >>>> Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn >>>> >>>> Dear John, >>>> >>>> The attached HS list does have IEC standards. Do they have >>>> other meaning that I might incorrectly interpret it? >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/7/2017, 1:08 AM, "John Woodgate" <jmw1...@btinternet.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> IEC standards are rarely, if ever, notified in the OJ, >>>> because they are not harmonized so all EU/CENELEC countries do not have >>>> to accept them. >>>> >>>> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only >>>> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh >>>> England >>>> >>>> Sylvae in aeternum manent. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: 21 July 2017 17:50 >>>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >>>> Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: Harmonised standard withdrawn >>>> >>>> Hi Durrer, >>>> >>>> Both IEC and EN 60335-2-24 were in the harmonised standard >>>> list of OJEU before they were removed. Regarding the national standard BS >>>> EN 60335-2-24 should be technically identical with EN 60335-2-24. >>>> Although it is still valid in BSI website, the HS removal is due to UK >>>> objection. It does not make sense using BS EN 60335-2-24 to declare the >>>> compliance with LVD. >>>> >>>> It is good suggestion to take care this known issue in risk >>>> assessment required in LVD. As this issue is being discussed in IEC to EN >>>> standard conversion. For the time being, the latest IEC A2 amendment >>>> seems a reasonable reference to address the fire risk. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>>> On 21/7/2017, 4:16 PM, "Dürrer Bernd" >>>> <bernd.duer...@wilo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Scott, >>>> >>>> The removal of the reference to EN 60335-2-24 from the >>>> OJEU means that compliance with this standard does not provide the >>>> presumption of conformity as defined in Article 12 of LVD. Actually, the >>>> nationally adopted versions of this standard are still valid (e.g. BS EN >>>> 60335-2-24, >>>> https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030236214). As IEC >>>> 60335-2-24 is not listed as an international standard in the OJEU, I do >>>> not see any advantage in declaring CE compliance with the IEC version, >>>> especially as the objection raised by the UK against the use of highly >>>> flammable materials would also apply to fridges compliant with IEC >>>> 60335-2-24. >>>> >>>> As risk analysis (preferably according to CENELEC Guide >>>> 32) is a mandatory part of the technical documentation (LVD, Annex III, >>>> Module A, 2.), the manufacturer is bound to consider the findings in UK's >>>> objection and to avoid the use of such materials even if they are >>>> compliant with the IEC/EN standard. Please be aware that the obligations >>>> of the manufacturer (LVD, Art. 6) also include the monitoring of products >>>> already in the market and to take corrective measures if it is found that >>>> a product presents a risk. >>>> >>>> Regarding a new product, you may still refer to EN >>>> 60335-2-24, but it will not give you presumption of conformity. With the >>>> CE DoC you declare that your electrical equipment provides "a high level >>>> of protection of health and safety of persons, and of domestic animals and >>>> property" (LVD, Art. 1), using the standard as a technical means to >>>> demonstrate compliance, but considering also risks that are not adequately >>>> addressed in the standard. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> Bernd >>>> >>>> Von: Wiseman, Josh UTC CCS >>>> [mailto:joshua.e.wise...@carrier.utc.com] >>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Juli 2017 21:31 >>>> An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >>>> Betreff: Re: [PSES] Harmonised standard withdrawn >>>> >>>> Scott, >>>> >>>> You can continue to use EN 60335-1 and reference IEC >>>> 60335-2-24 to show compliance. Just because the EN is withdrawn doesn’t >>>> mean the IEC is no longer valid. Knowing now about the plastic issue, >>>> maybe you do some other evaluation method for it to ensure it’s safe to be >>>> used in that application. >>>> >>>> Josh Wiseman >>>> Senior Compliance Engineer >>>> >>>> Taylor Company >>>> Joshua Wiseman >>>> Senior Compliance Engineer >>>> 750 N. Blackhawk Blvd. | Rockton, IL 61072 >>>> Office: 815.624.5628 | Cell: 815.262.5517 | Fax: >>>> 815.624.5181 >>>> http://www.taylor-company.com/ | >>>> https://twitter.com/TheTaylorCo | http://www.youtube.com/TheTaylorCompany >>>> ----------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named >>>> above. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If >>>> you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy, use or circulate >>>> this message. Instead, please notify the sender immediately by replying to >>>> this message and then delete it from your system. Internet communications >>>> are not secure. While every reasonable effort has been made to ensure that >>>> this communication has not been tampered with, Taylor Company cannot be >>>> responsible for alterations made to the contents of this message without >>>> its express consent, and Taylor Company accepts no responsibility for >>>> changes to or interception of this message after it was sent or for any >>>> damage to the recipient's systems or data caused by this message or its >>>> attachments. Opinions, conclusions and other information contained in >>>> this message that do not relate to the official business of Taylor Company >>>> shall be understood as > neither given nor e ndorsed by Taylor Co mpany. Please also note that > messages to or from Taylor Company may be monitored to ensure compliance with > Taylor Company policies and standards and to protect our business. >>>> ----------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 9:38 AM >>>> To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >>>> Subject: [External] [PSES] Harmonised standard withdrawn >>>> >>>> The harmonised standard EN 60335-2-24 is removed from >>>> the harmonised standard list on OJEU. The common compliance route of >>>> self-declaration of conformity to LVD using harmonised standard becomes >>>> lost. What are other options to demonstrating the compliance with LVD? >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> - >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering >>>> Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your >>>> e-mail to <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the >>>> web at: >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=RyQ6Fr0g7aHfEQCV0zeIZ5rmc48Lfs-2bcf6A3GtyRc&m=EzMmtVsAChI0PUoxZd-jG3QWM48V9wWIGTfBBod8eyM&s=VIRQq3ILdGSf6dvMzNp5OWiCAeSuh8Ssf9WYmfhEpz0&e= >>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online >>>> Communities site at >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=RyQ6Fr0g7aHfEQCV0zeIZ5rmc48Lfs-2bcf6A3GtyRc&m=EzMmtVsAChI0PUoxZd-jG3QWM48V9wWIGTfBBod8eyM&s=3zDWGtj2JcDcnfAvvRC9oYVUDo7raetrj4p-ATYjkJ0&e= >>>> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. >>>> Website: >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=RyQ6Fr0g7aHfEQCV0zeIZ5rmc48Lfs-2bcf6A3GtyRc&m=EzMmtVsAChI0PUoxZd-jG3QWM48V9wWIGTfBBod8eyM&s=9w0yYDC69Ng_SmSEIaEmWhzThHwIfwGAhDPAow8jUyY&e= >>>> Instructions: >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=RyQ6Fr0g7aHfEQCV0zeIZ5rmc48Lfs-2bcf6A3GtyRc&m=EzMmtVsAChI0PUoxZd-jG3QWM48V9wWIGTfBBod8eyM&s=_tfBUhxNcZTrOJohdxg3nlXk7j3uL6EehFkkkYcxflA&e= >>>> List rules: >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=RyQ6Fr0g7aHfEQCV0zeIZ5rmc48Lfs-2bcf6A3GtyRc&m=EzMmtVsAChI0PUoxZd-jG3QWM48V9wWIGTfBBod8eyM&s=-uUeSArkKHSGt0s1-cu4EGS5VC9rX49ocK0RqXkb6Sw&e= >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Scott Douglas <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> >>>> Mike Cantwell <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> - >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering >>>> Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your >>>> e-mail to <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the >>>> web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online >>>> Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for >>>> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html >>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Scott Douglas <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> >>>> Mike Cantwell <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> WILO SE >>>> Nortkirchenstrasse 100, 44263 Dortmund >>>> Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 21356 >>>> www.wilo.com >>>> >>>> Vorstand/Executive Board: >>>> Oliver Hermes (Vorsitzender/Chairman), Dr. Markus >>>> Beukenberg, Carsten Krumm, Eric Lachambre, Mathias Weyers >>>> Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender/Chairman of the Supervisory >>>> Board: >>>> Prof. Dr. Norbert Wieselhuber >>>> >>>> Dieses Dokument ist vertraulich zu behandeln. Die >>>> Weitergabe sowie Vervielfaeltigung, Verwertung und Mitteilung seines >>>> Inhalts ist nur mit unserer ausdruecklichen Genehmigung gestattet. Alle >>>> Rechte vorbehalten, insbesondere fuer den Fall der Schutzrechtsanmeldung. >>>> >>>> This document has to be treated confidentially. Its >>>> contents are not to be passed on, duplicated, exploited or disclosed >>>> without our expressed permission. All rights reserved, especially the >>>> right to apply for protective rights. >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering >>>> Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your >>>> e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the >>>> web at: >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online >>>> Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for >>>> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html >>>> (including how to unsubscribe) >>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering >>>> Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your >>>> e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web >>>> at: >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online >>>> Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for >>>> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including >>>> how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society >>>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail >>>> to <emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site >>>> at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in >>>> well-used formats), large files, etc. >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >>>> unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >>>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >>>> <emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >>>> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in >>>> well-used formats), large files, etc. >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >>>> unsubscribe) >>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
