Hi Glyn:
There are two points of view for your dilemma. One is compliance to the safety standard (your point of view). The other is prevention of the spread of fire (my point of view). The requirements of the standard have not been tested. The requirements are not tested until the standard is promulgated and products are submitted to a certification house. Even then, many certification houses insist on strict compliance to the standard, especially under the CB scheme where another certification house gets to see and review the CB report. Strict compliance with the requirements (sometimes, and in this case) avoids testing. So, we don’t know whether the requirements are effective in preventing spread of fire. In my opinion, the small connectors mounted in a metal enclosure are sufficiently heat-sunk to prevent spread of fire. Yes, the standard requires severe and time-consuming conditioning of the connectors, but a test without conditioning will tell you whether the scheme will pass the conditioned test. Furthermore, since most or all materials within the enclosure are flame-retardant, its unlikely that a flame will touch the non-fame-retardant connectors. Two faults, one, extended flaming within the enclosure, and two, all the connector material is consumed allowing the flame to escape the enclosure. My point of view (which saves you and your company from undue control of the small connectors). Best regards, Richard From: Payne, Glyn <gl...@solidstatelogic.com> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 4:48 AM To: ri...@ieee.org; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] 62368-1 Openings in a fire enclosure Hi Richard, Thanks for this. The reason we tend to use a metal enclosure where possible is for ruggedisation and to avoid any of the flame tests of S.1, which involve several samples plus 7 days of heat conditioning before the test is applied. (Clause 6.4.8.2.1) I am still not sure how to interpret the actual requirement. All internal flammable parts such as wiring and pcbs are V-0/V-1, as are all the XLRs and most couplers, it’s only one that’s HB rated. Regardless of its position relative to a PIS, if there was an internal fire it could still eventually spread to the coupler even with all other components being fairly flame resistant, allowing the fire enclosure to be compromised. So my interpretation of the minimum requirement for components that ‘fill an opening in a fire enclosure’ based on clause 6.4.8.2.2 is that the coupler has to be V-1, regardless of its proximity to a PIS. Our test house is saying that HB is fine because it’s not near a PIS but I argue that it’s near combustible material so according to the standard it’s V-1! I’m sure the interpretation will vary between different facilities and it’s still early days for application of 62368-1. Best regards, Glyn From: Richard Nute <ri...@ieee.org <mailto:ri...@ieee.org> > Reply-To: <ri...@ieee.org <mailto:ri...@ieee.org> > Date: Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 19:25 To: "'Payne, Glyn'" <gl...@solidstatelogic.com <mailto:gl...@solidstatelogic.com> >, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Subject: RE: [PSES] 62368-1 Openings in a fire enclosure Hi Glyn: You have the option of testing the bulkhead connectors in place (Annex S.1). Apply the test flame to the inside surface of the installed connector material at a point judged to be likely to become ignited because of its proximity to a source of ignition. I suspect your product connectors are not in proximity to a source of ignition (PIS), in which case the test is not warranted. At least for the XLR connectors, the metal should provide enough heat-sinking that the material will pass. Pass should be no opening in the fire enclosure, although a certification house may require the material to pass the S.1 criteria regardless of the fire enclosure criteria. Even though you prefer V-1 connector material, for the purposes of certification, I recommend you certify to the minimum requirement. You can always use a “better” material as long as the certification report says “minimum.” Good luck, and best regards, Rich From: Payne, Glyn <00000d283c0acebb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org <mailto:00000d283c0acebb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:48 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] 62368-1 Openings in a fire enclosure HI Lori, Your interpretation is the same as mine, though I haven’t found an IEC component standard that specifies the flammability rating of optical bulkhead connectors. There may not actually be one given that they carry no electrical power. The one I currently use is HB rated but I do think it should be V-1 regardless of it’s proximity to a PIS. Best regards, Glyn From: Lori Young < <mailto:lyo...@productsafetyinc.com> lyo...@productsafetyinc.com> Date: Friday, 17 May 2019 at 14:51 To: "Payne, Glyn" < <mailto:gl...@solidstatelogic.com> gl...@solidstatelogic.com>, " <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" < <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: 62368-1 Openings in a fire enclosure Hi Glyn, If I am understanding the sited clause correctly, the V-1 class material is needed for any material/component that fills an opening in the enclosure. Which means it is acting as part of the enclosure and therefor is required to meet the V-1 material OR the other requirements listed. 6.4.8.2.2 Requirements for a fire enclosure Material for components that fill an opening in a fire enclosure or that is intended to be mounted in such opening shall: * comply with the flammability requirements of the relevant IEC component standard; or * be made of V-1 class material; or * with Clause S.1. Best Regards, Lori Lori A.Young | Senior Compliance Consultant | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. <http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> www.productsafetyinc.com Your Outsourced Compliance Department Product Safety Consulting, Inc. 605 Country Club Drive, Suites I & J Bensenville, IL 60106 Cell: 224-388-2050 Tel: 630-238-0188 1-877-804-3066 <mailto:lyo...@productsafetyinc.com> lyo...@productsafetyinc.com IEEE Member Chair/PSES Chicago Chapter Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Compliance <https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html> https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html Although PSC maintains the highest level of virus protection, this e-mail and any attachments should be scanned by your virus protection software. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check that it is virus free. PSC does not accept any responsibility for data loss or systems damage arising in any way from its use. 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From: Payne, Glyn < <mailto:00000d283c0acebb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> 00000d283c0acebb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 8:40 AM To: <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] 62368-1 Openings in a fire enclosure Hi Experts, I have a EN 62368-1 question regarding openings in a fire enclosure… 6.4.8.2.2 Requirements for a fire enclosure Material for components that fill an opening in a fire enclosure or that is intended to be mounted in such opening shall: * comply with the flammability requirements of the relevant IEC component standard; or * be made of V-1 class material; or * with Clause S.1. For PS2 and PS3 circuits I have been told by a test house that connectors in fire enclosure openings only have to be V-1 class material if they are close to a potential ignition source (PIS). My interpretation is that a fire enclosure is a fire enclosure, regardless of where, within a fire enclosure a fire may start and so anything filling an opening must be V-1. I am interested to know how do other engineers interpret this clause. Many thanks, Glyn Payne Compliance and Design Support Engineer Solid State Logic UK Limited Registered as a limited company in England and Wales (Company No:5362730) Registered Office: 25 Spring Hill Road, Begbroke, Oxford OX5 1RU, United Kingdom - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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