On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:27:41 +0100 Stefan Schmidt <s.schm...@samsung.com> wrote:
> Hello. > > On 08/16/2013 09:06 AM, David Seikel wrote: > > On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:50:02 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > > <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > > >> one of those platforms... that efl is shipped on by default, > >> doesnt use systemd for this (but it should), so abstracting is a > >> must as we then already have 2 paths. we ALSO have upower... a bit > >> older than systemd and some distros wont go "systemd"... and then > >> think bsd. they may have their own things (i have no idea what > >> they are), but it gives a point for them to plug in and abstract. > > > > Then there's things like Windows and Mac OS X. Systemd might not > > even be an option in some places. As much as I hate it, and would > > prefer to just ignore it and hope it goes away, Windows counts as > > one of the "ones that matter". Mac also counts, but at least it's > > kinda, sorta, Unixy under the hood, and I can live with that. > > I curious here. Where does this "counts" come from? It sounds like > set in stone without given reason. > > If we would have a big developer base bringing in patches for Windows > or Mac I could easily understand that but we don't have that. We have > a patch here and there but nobody is really looking into that. > > There might be a big user base for some apps running efl on these > platforms but without developers that are interested in it this falls > apart quickly. Right now we have the situation where people like me > who are totally uninterested in Windows support fix things to get a > mingw build working. Which tells me that people that use it with > windows either keep their patches private or use really old versions > of efl. > > So having something marked as "counts" which is barely supported by > anyone upstream is kind of funny. And there is our problem. TL;DR version - we need to make sure EFL works on Windows (and other places) so that us non Windows coders don't have to deal with it. No one wants to, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot. Well, they count for me. I want to use EFL for a large existing project where the Linux users are a very small minority. The Mac users are a small minority as well, but they are kinda vocal, even if so far none of them actually offer to help. Quite frankly, if I don't have a Windows version, no one will be interested in using the results. On the other hand, last century I got burnt out doing Windows development. So I'm rather reluctant to actually do it myself. Stuck between a rock and a hard place here. It's something that I'd much rather someone else deal with, so I can keep myself from going any more crazy than I already am. I believe in EFL as a cross platform development library. On the desktop, Windows is still the 900 pound gorilla, which is why any development library has to work there to be taken seriously. Decisions like this one boil down to "be Linux specific" vs "try to be generic", really should err on the generic side of things if at all possible. Every little decision that locks us closer to a specific platform drives away people that want or need to do cross platform development. As much as I don't want to work on Windows, I also don't want to switch to using Qt, or GTK, or any of those other systems. As dirty as it makes me feel to say it, Windows support is important. It's a really big pity that our major Windows developer left for reasons that are a complete mystery to me. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. I really do want to get stuck into serious work on the EFL version of this large existing project. And for this project, it's gotta be Linux, Mac, and Windows. I'd love to say "screw you, you non Unix Windows users, get a real OS", but I can't. The one thing that has been holding me back from getting stuck deeply into the EFL side of things for this project has been lack of a Mac, since I can't legally do Mac development without one. Damn Apple. So I have little bits and pieces of this project that only work under Linux, and no one is using them. Once I get a Mac for development, then I got no more excuses, I'll just have to actually start serious work on making sure my EFL version actually works on Linux, Mac, and Windows. And yes, any thing I need to do to get that to happen I'll contribute back to EFL. It sucks, but as much as we want to, we really can't ignore Windows. Yes, I know, just like every one else, I really want someone else to handle that horrible piece of crap. But I'm passionate about my large existing project, so eventually I'll have to suck it up and deal with it. In the mean time, let's try to avoid locking things down to Linux specific stuff when we don't have to. Let's not make dealing with the huge stinking pile of garbage that Windows is even harder on those of us that are forced to. Let's hope we can find someone that does not die a little inside each time they deal with Windows to work with us. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
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