On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:17:38 +0930 Simon Lees <sfl...@suse.de> wrote: > > > On 08/04/2016 02:57 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:16:03 +1000 David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> > > said: > > > >> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:00:01 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > >> <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > >> > >>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:23:33 +1000 David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> > >>> said: > >>> > >>>> On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The > >>>> Rasterman) <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> one thing with your evas 3d usage... it's not real/useful to > >>>>> anyone else. if you made open source tools/apps that were easily > >>>>> usable and downloadable (without needing special accounts you > >>>>> have to pay for e.g second life) then you would be > >>>>> interesting/relevant. > >>>>> > >>>>> let me give you a sample: > >>>>> > >>>>> if you made a really nice world clock app for seeing world > >>>>> timezones, selecting yours, setting date/time etc. that even did > >>>>> sexy stuff like used topological maps of the world so when you > >>>>> zoom into an area you get some mountains/hills and so on... and > >>>>> this was part of e's settings tools or clock tool with calendar > >>>>> etc. ... well then that'd be really cool and useful to LOTs of > >>>>> people and accessible to everyone. :) just saying. you're emails > >>>>> are "i'm working on this thing.. here on my hard drive... it > >>>>> does x/y/z and will do x/y/z". that's not REAL to anyone. it's > >>>>> not accessible. it's not used daily thus important. :) you want > >>>>> evas 3d to be useful to your BIGGER projects you do like this, > >>>>> do some smaller ones out the front that people see and use > >>>>> daily. :) > >>>> > >>>> Er, my project is for Second Life, OpenSim, AND an alternative to > >>>> both, and is on Github. Your arguments are invalid. Hell, my > >>>> general idea is to make server side so efficient that by default, > >>>> anyone can run their own little server to invite their friends > >>>> to, even on their phone. I'm trying to open up 3D virtual > >>>> worlds to the masses. > >>> > >>> "that are easily downloadable and usable without special > >>> accounts". someone has to set up a server, run it, need accounts, > >>> etc. is it a tool readily usable out of the box that people > >>> actually will need/use regularly. a secondlife or quivalent is > >>> not. a terminal is. a wm is. a web browser is. ... if someone has > >>> to set up a server themselves or register accounts somewhere else > >>> at all you just failed the "useful to anyone" :) > >> > >> If you read SledjHamr.org, you'll see I have taken all of that into > >> account. Now you are just making up excuses to ignore me. > > > > count the number of people here participating in any virtual world. > > they use terminals. email clients. wm's. the number of people > > involved in virtual worlds who would even look is small at best. > > perhaps you don't like it, but i'm trying to tell you that the > > reason no one is paying attention is you do not have something they > > want. maybe others do, but no one here working on efl or e or core > > users etc. is. or almost no one. if they were, then you wouldnt be > > a periphery thing. i am not saying your work is bad or its stupid > > or anything. i'm saying that expecting relevance is dependent on > > things being relevant to others. if efl breaks terminology then > > that break becomes relevant because LOTs of people use it here and > > even elsewhere. but especially here. if evas_3d was being used in e > > for eg 3d cube desktop switching effects... it'd be relevant to a > > whole lot of people immediately. > > > > i'm not even going to look at those projects because the premise of > > them as a virtual world is not interesting or relevant to me. it is > > to you and that's great. not to me. and if you go around wondering > > why they are not paying attention then this is the primary reason. > > you have to have things in common that make the things you want be > > relevant. :) i'm trying to help you here by pointing out that to > > help the project you care about, you may have to do other side > > projects that have relevance to others to bring that to the fore. :) > > > > A gadget to display models of parts of virtual worlds inside E would > be pretty interesting maybe.
What, like the file requester showing 3D thumbnails that Raster keeps arguing against? Yeah, I want that to. B-) > Extra extra bonus points if you can merge the concept of a virtual > world and a Window manager, I've always wanted to be able to walk > between my windows its about time someone reinveted 3D window > managers, if you started work along those lines id definitely be > interested. Keep in mind that what I am working on is an entire 3D virtual world system, which is a huge thing, including lots and lots and lots of little bits. Any generic bit I can get others to write will be really helpful. Taking time to write bits that wont be useful for the virtual world work is anathema to me, it's all gonna take too much time as it is. I tend to write things generically, so that I can reuse them elsewhere. So extra extra bonus points if people actually looked at my stuff, and picked out the things they might consider useful. Don't leave it up to me, I can't market for shit. I don't know what bribes EFL developers want, but I do know what virtual world users want. The integration of EFL widgets displayed on Evas_3D models, and Evas_3D models displayed on EFL widgets is very interesting to me, and I do intend to make use of that in my virtual world project. Ultimately the ability to show any arbitrary window in world, to other people, is highly desirable. So that's part of my plan, and should help with your 3D window manager idea. The lack of a useful internal window manager means I have already started writing my own for this project. By "internal window manager" I mean managing the internal EFL windows inside the main window, even allowing internal windows to be "ripped off" to become their own main window (a commonly requested feature for Second Life and OpenSim users that no one has actually implemented yet). Just off the top of my head http://SledjHamr.org/ already has - A working network transparent GUI system based on Lua and EFL. I even intend to get it working in web browsers (Lua via WASM / asm.js and maybe a HTML translation layer). This has lots of features, and planned features, including the above mentioned internal window manager. It's based on my earlier matrix-RAD system that was written in Java. Better versions of some internal EFL APIs that should be made public APIs. A high speed Lua script runner that can handle thousands of scripts, based on my edje_lua2 work and some academic work by others. So if EFL developers want little bribes so we can all have a decent 3D system, then EFL developers should actually look at my stuff and pick out suitable bribes. I ain't gonna take time out to build bribes that wont be useful to ME, if that's the way this is to work. So go look at http://SledjHamr.org/ and figure out what bribes con work for us all if bribery is the thing we need to do. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
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