I like Robert Heinlein.... I read a lot of his books.... but my memory is short on titles and stuff ... 'Stranger in a Strange Land' comes to mind and the "Lazarus" character.....that was a new notion.... plain "human" immortality.....there was a mixing of the traditional americana "old" with a sci-fi techy "new".....times changed but the traditional notions never were outgrown...... sort of explained a lot about "Republicans" to me.... HAR....some of their "taditional social notions" never quite fade away....
Anyway... getting back to scams... I came up with (sort of recognized) this notion that deception is based on two fundamental processes... either a) subterfuge or b) fraud.... Subterfuge being considered as just plain concealment.... saying (communicating) the opposite of what is actually done.... Example: I say "I will give this person a pat on the cheek (pleasant act)... but when it comes down to it I actually perform the act of slapping the person in the face has hard as I can (unpleasant and downright hurtful or damaging)......The Mark goes away unhappy and knowing there was a deception Fraud being considered as either hyperbole or litotes... saying (communicating) the augmented or diminished Extent of what is actually done... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes Example: I convince an ignorant person to pay me twenty dollars for a wooden pencil (which pencil presumably the ignorant person has never heard of and does not recognize the actual value of).... or.... I barter a dozen poultry eggs for an ounce nugget of gold from some other ignorant person (again which eggs (or nugget) presumably the ignorant person has never heard of and does not recognize the actual value of). The mark leaves happy with the deal... for a while, at least, the mark doesn't recognize the deception.... But in terms of "enticement"... most scams do tend to be centered on appealing to the mark's "greed"... Here's a scam that a relative of mine was exposed to..... she received a telephone call from a young woman who identified herself( the caller) to be her grand daughter... the purported grand daughter asked the Grandmother for emergency "bail" money to get her out of jail....Here, the scam was after money but it was centered on an appeal to family relation and affection......The "appeal".... some call it the "hook".... varies with what is likely to be effective with the particular "mark"... the "hook" is whatever works.... Now, the problem with complex "financial" scams is that a whole lot of "us" (naive people, like me) are just too ignorant to recognize the value or worth of especially the frauds... the subterfuges become evident pretty quickly.... Ignorance can be cured....I'm after some financial "edjicatin" from some "honest brokers"... the likes of Archytas.... or maybe even you... Lonnie Clay.... On Sunday, April 7, 2013 8:22:11 PM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: > > I get quite a bit of scam email. The common denominator is the usage of > mistaken identity or insider knowledge lead ins. For example the offer is > made of giving you a percentage of the take from embezzlement. Another > offer is from a dying person who trusts you due to your reputation but does > not even know your full name. Yet another is the most common, the offer to > facilitate your receipt of an inheritance or lottery winnings even though > you are unrelated to the supposedly deceased and never buy lottery tickets. > All have a common factor in that only a dishonest person would respond > positively to the email offer. As Robert Heinlein says, you can't cheat an > honest man, because he won't take your offer. > > > http://linguaspectrum.com/quotations/by_author_english.php?id=Robert%20Heinlein > > Lonnie Courtney Clay > > On Sunday, April 7, 2013 12:04:21 PM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: >> >> Thanks Lonnie Clay.... >> I agree, it is relevant but it doesn't seem to do justice to the >> magnitude of the problem.....The "banksters" and "traders".... the problem >> is....they get away with their scams, and most of them (the scams) have >> either not been figured out or have not been even thought to be deemed >> "illegal"..... >> I like the scams that the "Technical Report" authors found, and the >> "principles of motivation/ deception" they identify.... but I'm (pretty >> darn) sure that a more specific "spelling out" of the Financial Sector >> scams would help "us" (naive folks, like me) all.... they could explain >> "personalized" scams like.... oh, I don't know.... the Ponzi, Madoff... the >> Lehman Brothers....the Corzine...the Bank of Scotland... the >> Goldman-Sachs...the Offshore Tax-Haven Banks...the Real Estate Mortgage >> Shuffle....etc. >> >> S1-E1 Monte • • › › › › >> 2.2 S1-E2 Lottery scam › • › • • >> 2.3 S1-E4 Ring reward rip-off • › • • >> 2.4 S2-E1 Van dragging › › • › >> 2.5 S2-E1 Home alone › • › › >> 2.5.1 S1-E1 (Jewellery shop scam) › • › › >> 2.6 S2-E3 Valet steal › • • › >> 2.7 S4-E3 Gadget scam • › • › >> 2.8 S4-E4 Counterfeit pen con • › >> 2.9 S4-E5 Cash machine con • › • >> 2.10 S4-E5 Recruitment scam • • › • › >> 2.11 S4-E7 Shop phone call scam › • › › >> 2.12 S4-E9 Exchange rate rip-off › >> >> 3.1 Distraction >> 3.2 Social Compliance >> 3.3 Herd >> 3.4 Dishonesty >> 3.5 Deception >> 3.6 Need and Greed >> 3.7 Time >> >> but I'm (pretty darn) sure that a more specific "spelling out" of the >> Financial Sector scams would help "us" (naive folks like me) all.... >> they could explain "personalized" scams like.... oh, I don't know.... the >> Ponzi, Madoff... the Lehman Brothers....the Corzine...the Bank of >> Scotland... the Goldman-Sachs...the Offshore Tax-Haven Banks...the Real >> Estate Mortgage Shuffle....etc. >> >> >> A lot of the information is out there (scattered here and there)... but >> it could be better "grouped" and exemplified by actual specific financial >> crime example "stories".... (I think people like to hear, "stories", about >> real-life or real-fiction people... Har) >> Personally, I suspect the powers that be.... "corporate and >> regulatory".... have a "personal interest" in keeping it hushed up.... >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crimes >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_fraud >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_fraud >> >> And on.... >> >> Scams for Dummies..... that's what I was thinking of.... one of those >> "books"....HAR. >> >> On Saturday, April 6, 2013 1:10:38 PM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: >>> >>> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-754.pdf >>> This might be relevant. >>> >>> Lonnie Courtney Clay >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, April 6, 2013 9:32:08 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: >>>> >>>> There, you see?.... Someone (like you and people like you, Archytas), >>>> should come up with a "primer" of money laundering, tax evasion, ponzi, >>>> check or other sorts of kiting, etc. money scams and schemes explained for >>>> the relatively naive. I mean, it wouldn't necessarily have to be an >>>> altruistic venture on the authors' parts.... I'm [personally "bullet"] >>>> certain that there would definitely be a market of "buyers" for such a >>>> pamphlet or tome, as the case may be.....Then consider that others >>>> (authors) would want to get into that "market" competition by adding other >>>> "scam" explanations or variations..... sequels.... It might get to be like >>>> a contest between providers of "anti-scam" "printware"....And of course, >>>> consider that once the "known" "bad actors" in each scam are specifically >>>> identified... (Cayman Islands... Swiss banks.... U.S. real estate >>>> transactions.....etc.) then there would be growing general (public >>>> pushing >>>> government) pressure to shut those bad actors down...... >>>> How about it?.... Can I gin up any interest in starting out with.... >>>> "An Idiot's Guide To Bankster and Financial Fraudulent Money Scams... and >>>> how they steal your money"..... or something like that? >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 5:20:17 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> That's about the half of it Nom. We might know more about how Cyprus >>>>> was looted by the end of next week and who is really paying. I >>>>> predict the hot money will turn out to have gone in the months before, >>>>> the take over of Cyprus banks in Greece (done in all haste preventing >>>>> due diligence before the crash and leaving bad Greek debt in Cyprus) >>>>> may prove to have been an unload of RHD by foreign banks. British >>>>> banks have unloaded half their exposure to Greece in the last three >>>>> years - raising questions about who bought the magic beans and at what >>>>> price (if they had to sell low - I guess hey must as you and I would >>>>> have been smart enough not to buy the RHD - then where are the write- >>>>> offs) and whether any investment packages they were in were sold >>>>> honestly. I'm inclined to think Cyprus is no accident and the >>>>> banksters may be able to manipulate such crashes. Whilst w wouldn't >>>>> buy the magic beans from each other (scared of giants as we are), I >>>>> suspect the deal runs more like this: >>>>> >>>>> Neil: Nom - I have an offer you can't refuse. >>>>> Nom. Screw you limey. >>>>> Neil. Peace brother, we'll both make a killing. Switch to the >>>>> scambler (no typo) phone. Buy as much eu periphery rocking horse shit >>>>> as you can find. You should get it at 10 cents on the dollar. I'll >>>>> give you 80 for it all. >>>>> Nom. Good deal for me, what's your cut? >>>>> Neil. We'll go 50:50 on the net after we pay off Pedro. >>>>> Nom. What's Pedro got to do with this? >>>>> Neil. He runs the Spanish bank buying the rocking horse shit. When >>>>> Spain goes down the toilet holding all the losses he'll throw in the >>>>> incompetence joker while we sort him with a new identity and a sack of >>>>> cash to soothe his conscience over the small matter of bankrupting his >>>>> fellow countrymen. >>>>> Nom. I love these crimes where no one gets hurt. How much will the EU >>>>> and depositor bail in be on this one? >>>>> Neil. $250 billion. We'll go short on Spain. Italy, Luxembourg and >>>>> the Netherlands to pick up on the death-throes of the EU >>>>> >>>>> The actual fraud network will be a bit more complex and our secret >>>>> services will be involved. Do you know where Dr. No's island is? >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 27, 5:28 pm, nominal9 <nomin...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21948429 >>>>> > >>>>> > Major UK banks must raise a total of £25bn in extra capital by the >>>>> end of >>>>> > 2013 to guard against potential losses, the Bank of England (BoE) >>>>> has said. >>>>> > >>>>> > In a statement< >>>>> http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/news/2013/013.aspx>, >>>>> >>>>> > the BoE's Financial Policy Committee (FPC) said only some banks need >>>>> to >>>>> > raise the cash, but did not name them. >>>>> > >>>>> > It said banks could face losses of about £50bn over the next three >>>>> years, >>>>> > relating to bad loans and fines. >>>>> > >>>>> > The order is the first from the FPC, the new financial stability >>>>> regulator. >>>>> > >>>>> > It said UK banks and building societies could lose billions of >>>>> pounds over >>>>> > the next three years relating to "high-risk" loans in the UK >>>>> commercial >>>>> > property sector and vulnerable eurozone economies. >>>>> > >>>>> > They may also lose money through fines, and require extra capital to >>>>> > support a "more prudent approach to risk". >>>>> > >>>>> > Some banks already have enough capital to cover these costs, the FPC >>>>> said, >>>>> > but others are short. >>>>> > >>>>> > Yet more money may need to be raised after the end of 2013, the FPC >>>>> warned, >>>>> > so that banks conform to incoming "Basel III" accords on banking >>>>> regulation. >>>>> > Shares mixed >>>>> > >>>>> > No new government money will be required. Banks are likely to raise >>>>> the >>>>> > funds by issuing more bonds or selling shares. >>>>> > >>>>> > But BBC business editor Robert Peston says in the short term the >>>>> need to >>>>> > raise cash will be bad news for investors, including taxpayers who >>>>> still >>>>> > own big stakes in two banks - Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds. >>>>> > >>>>> > If these banks are among those that need to raise more capital, it >>>>> may >>>>> > delay plans to sell the stakes back to private investors. >>>>> > >>>>> > In a statement RBS insisted it had "a strong capital position". >>>>> > >>>>> > "We will continue to work with our regulators to ensure RBS remains >>>>> at the >>>>> > forefront of international capital standards," it said. >>>>> > >>>>> > However, by midday RBS shares were down 3%. >>>>> > >>>>> > Other bank shares reflected a mixed response to the FPC's >>>>> announcement. >>>>> > Shares in Lloyds were up more than 1.6%, while HSBC and Barclays >>>>> were both >>>>> > down by about 0.5%. >>>>> > >>>>> > The British Bankers' Association, the banking trade body, described >>>>> the >>>>> > FPC's report as "the latest step in an ongoing discussion between >>>>> the UK's >>>>> > banks and their regulators" about the levels of capital they should >>>>> be >>>>> > holding. >>>>> > >>>>> > It said raising capital levels needed to be done in such a way as to >>>>> > support growth. >>>>> > Sustaining lending >>>>> > >>>>> > The FPC said capital raising measures were also designed to ensure >>>>> that >>>>> > banks were able to continue lending to businesses and each other, >>>>> should >>>>> > another banking crisis hit. >>>>> > >>>>> > The extra capital was needed "to ensure sufficient capacity to >>>>> absorb >>>>> > losses and sustain lending", the FPC said. >>>>> > >>>>> > The FPC has overall responsibility for financial regulation in the >>>>> UK and >>>>> > is part of a new order of regulation designed to keep the banks >>>>> under >>>>> > closer scrutiny. >>>>> > >>>>> > It will oversee two new financial watchdogs: the Prudential >>>>> Regulation >>>>> > Authority (PRA), which will take over responsibility for supervising >>>>> the >>>>> > safety and soundness of individual financial firms, and the >>>>> Financial >>>>> > Conduct Authority (FCA), which will be tasked with protecting >>>>> consumers and >>>>> > making sure that workers in the financial services sector comply >>>>> with rules. >>>>> > >>>>> > The new watchdogs will replace the Financial Services Authority >>>>> (FSA), >>>>> > which is set to close next week. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:18:57 AM UTC-4, nominal9 wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > Bail-Ins instead of Bail-Outs....there you go.... >>>>> > >>>>> > > somebody's finally thinking.... contrary logic.... >>>>> > >>>>> > > HAR HAR HAR HAR. >>>>> > >>>>> > > I like it.... >>>>> > >>>>> > > the U.S. should go back and "bail in" the Wall Street banks and >>>>> trading >>>>> > > firms..... >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/26/eurozone-banks-bailouts-idU... >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > > Cyprus rescue marks "game-changer" for Europe's banks >>>>> > >>>>> > > - >>>>> > > - inShare >>>>> > > - Share this >>>>> > > - >>>>> > > - Email >>>>> > > - Print >>>>> > >>>>> > > Related News >>>>> > >>>>> > > - Global shares, euro checked by Cyprus bailout nerves< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/26/us-markets-global-idUSBRE88...> >>>>> >>>>> > > 9:17am EDT >>>>> > > - WRAPUP 10-Cyprus leader hails bailout, but banks stay closed< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/eurozone-cyprus-idUSL5N0CH0...> >>>>> >>>>> > > Mon, Mar 25 2013 >>>>> > > - Shares, euro retreat as Cyprus deal stirs unease< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-markets-global-idUSBRE88...> >>>>> >>>>> > > Mon, Mar 25 2013 >>>>> > > - Analysis: Cyprus rescue raises new questions about euro's >>>>> long-term >>>>> > > survival< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-eurozone-cyprus-contagio...> >>>>> >>>>> > > Mon, Mar 25 2013 >>>>> > > - Cyprus and EU agree draft proposal to rescue banks< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/24/us-cyprus-parliament-idUSBR...> >>>>> >>>>> > > Sun, Mar 24 2013 >>>>> > >>>>> > > Analysis & Opinion >>>>> > >>>>> > > - One-off or precedent?< >>>>> http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2013/03/26/one-off-or-precedent/> >>>>> > > - The Dijsselbloem Principle< >>>>> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/03/25/the-dijsselbloem-pri...> >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > > Related Topics >>>>> > >>>>> > > - Investing and Taxes Simplified »< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/subjects/investing-simplified> >>>>> > > - Financials » <http://www.reuters.com/sectors/financials> >>>>> > >>>>> > > By Steve Slater >>>>> > >>>>> > > LONDON, March 26 | Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:13am EDT >>>>> > >>>>> > > (Reuters) - If the bailout of Cyprus is a template for European >>>>> rescue >>>>> > > deals it marks a "game-changer" for banks that could raise funding >>>>> costs, >>>>> > > see deposits shift more quickly and delay the prospect of higher >>>>> dividends< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/finance/markets/dividends?lc=int_mb_1001> >>>>> > > . >>>>> > >>>>> > > Europe signalled this week that large depositors would shoulder >>>>> part of >>>>> > > the cost of future bank bailouts after savings over 100,000 euros >>>>> were >>>>> > > targeted in the Cyprus rescue package. That sent bank share prices >>>>> falling >>>>> > > and pushed up the cost of insuring bank debt against default. >>>>> > >>>>> > > "Bail-in is thus replacing bail-out. As a consequence, the cost of >>>>> bank >>>>> > > funding will increase, bank deposits will become less sticky, and >>>>> banks >>>>> > > must hold more equity capital to reassure their creditors," said >>>>> Nick >>>>> > > Anderson, analyst at Berenberg. >>>>> > >>>>> > > "The elephant in the room has been spotted at last." >>>>> > >>>>> > > Jeroen Dijsselbloem, head of the Eurogroup of euro zone< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/subjects/euro-zone?lc=int_mb_1001> >>>>> > > finance <http://www.reuters.com/finance> ministers, said on >>>>> Monday that >>>>> > > in future, the currency bloc should first ask banks to >>>>> recapitalise >>>>> > > themselves, then look to shareholders and bondholders and then "if >>>>> > > necessary" to uninsured deposit holders. >>>>> > >>>>> > > "Now that the crisis is fading out, I think we need to dare a >>>>> little more >>>>> > > in dealing with this," he said. >>>>> > >>>>> > > In addition to big depositors, senior bondholders in Cyprus's >>>>> > > second-largest bank, Laiki, will be wiped out and holders of >>>>> senior paper >>>>> > > in the largest lender, Bank of Cyprus, will also be hit. >>>>> > >>>>> > > In previous packages for Greece < >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/places/greece>, >>>>> > > Ireland <http://www.reuters.com/places/ireland?lc=int_mb_1001>, >>>>> Portugal<http://www.reuters.com/places/portugal?lc=int_mb_1001>and >>>>> Spain, leaders were unwilling to force losses on either senior >>>>> > > bondholders or savers for fear of prompting flight from banks >>>>> across the >>>>> > > region. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Under new EU regulations, senior bondholders would bear part of >>>>> the cost >>>>> > > of future bank bailouts but that provision is not due to be >>>>> enforced before >>>>> > > 2015. Non-eurozone member Denmark is the only EU state to impose >>>>> losses on >>>>> > > senior bondholders in recent years, but after its banks were shut >>>>> out of >>>>> > > debt markets < >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/finance/markets?lc=int_mb_1001> in >>>>> > > 2011 it has moved to limit the likelihood of such losses. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Europe's banking index was down nearly 0.6 percent by 1310 GMT, >>>>> adding to >>>>> > > a 1.9 percent fall on Monday and putting it on course for a fourth >>>>> > > successive daily fall. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Banks in Italy <http://www.reuters.com/places/italy> and Spain, >>>>> two >>>>> > > countries at the heart of the euro zone< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/subjects/euro-zone?lc=int_mb_1001>crisis, were >>>>> among the biggest fallers with UniCredit and Spain's BBVA down >>>>> > > over two percent. Italian regional lender Banca Carige had slid >>>>> over three >>>>> > > percent. >>>>> > >>>>> > > The cost of insuring European banks' senior bonds against default >>>>> rose, >>>>> > > with the Markit iTraxx senior financials index widening 14 basis >>>>> points to >>>>> > > 181. The index for subordinated bonds - riskier as they rank >>>>> behind senior >>>>> > > debt if a bank is wound up - widened 20 basis points to 302 basis >>>>> points. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Critics of the action on Cyprus said it had re-established the >>>>> link >>>>> > > between weak banks and weak sovereigns and could scare depositors, >>>>> but >>>>> > > others said it was long overdue. >>>>> > >>>>> > > "Finally the EU is doing the right thing. If you take risk, if >>>>> you're an >>>>> > > equity holder, a bondholder, or an uninsured depositor, you should >>>>> be at >>>>> > > risk," said Simon Maughan, analyst at Olivetree Securities. "It is >>>>> the >>>>> > > bailing out of the bondholders that has been the biggest problem >>>>> throughout >>>>> > > these bailouts." >>>>> > >>>>> > > Maughan said there were still risks in Spain, Italy< >>>>> http://www.reuters.com/places/italy?lc=int_mb_1001>and possibly >>>>> > > France <http://www.reuters.com/places/france>. "The only way to >>>>> deal with >>>>> > > them would be to make the investors that put money in in the first >>>>> place to >>>>> > > front up," he said. >>>>> > >>>>> > > "WAKE-UP CALL" >>>>> > >>>>> > > Deposits above 100,000 euros have been at risk since the level of >>>>> > > guarantee was raised and reinforced during the 2008/09 financial >>>>> crisis. >>>>> > > Cyprus is a reminder that above that level depositors are >>>>> effectively >>>>> > > unsecured creditors. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Savers are more likely than ever to spread their cash around, >>>>> analysts >>>>> > > said. >>>>> > >>>>> > > "It's a wake-up call... and deposits are likely to be more fluid >>>>> if you >>>>> > > see a risk emerging," Maughan said. >>>>> > >>>>> > > "It is now rational >>>>> > >>>>> > ... >>>>> > >>>>> > read more » >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. 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