> 1. Look it up. There are class action lawsuits and investigations. My mom's > pack "failed" at 70,000. Pathetic. Barely making warranty mileage (on > average) is the very definition of failure. Their "fix" is to reprogram the > computer so the battery is barely used. So now you have a hybrid that is not > really a hybrid and doesn't meet the EPA mileage claims.
'Look it up' ? If you are trying to convince me of something, then give me some facts... you're not doing a very good job of convincing me if you tell me to look it up and do your homework. I hope that you don't believe everybody that says 'believe me'... Nothing lasts forever... motors fail, transmissions fail, water pumps fail, hoses fail, battery packs fail and if the part fails within the warranty period it is replaced. Was your mom's pack failure with the warranty period? The transmission in my diesel F-250 failed at 76,000 miles/2.5 years, it was replaced under warranty... My Insight battery pack failed at 160,000 miles/8 years, I had to pay for a replacement because it was over 157,000 mile warranty. I don't have to look it up, I know it. There has only been one major class action Insight suit against Honda and it was for the odometer. It turns out that the odometer on certain years was not correct and so Honda extended the warranty for the affected years from 150,00 to 157,00 miles. So to imply that there are many class action suits against Honda for the Insight is incorrect. And what does 'investigation' mean? Private Detectives? Ron, Mike, Eli, Peter and others 'investigating' on their own how to better the Insight? In a separate letter to Honda owners - "American Honda is announcing a product update to replace certain IMA components to help prevent IMA battery deterioration. We are also announcing a warranty extension for the IMA battery." So yes, they saw there was a problem, they acknowledged the problem, they provided a solution and then they provided a warranty extension for the part. Pretty good in my mind. I'm well aware of the problems with the Gen 1 Insight battery pack, but it is nowhere as 'pathetic' as you state. In any case for a car that gets 60 MPG GREAT!!!! Mine has a lifetime MPG of 57.6, others have in the 60's some in the 70's. What is the LMPG of your car. There was recently a lawsuit against Honda that was won by the owner of a Honda Civic for not achieving stated fuel economy. But that was for a Civic. The Insight BCM, Battery Control Module limits the available usage of the NiMH 144v battery pack from about 20% to 80%, which has been mimicked by all the Hybrid and OEM EV's. None of them let the SOC fall below about 20% and none of them let the pack be charged to more than about 80% to prolong the life of the pack. So it looks like the Insight was a forerunner and established an industry standard. By the way, as I'm sure you know, there is a whole forum dedicated to the Insight, www.Insightcentral.net. I'm sure if you post about the problems your mom's Insight has, you'd would get lots of help if you want it. > 2. This has turned into a Nimh vs. Lifepo4 debate. This has already been > hashed over and over on other forums such as V is for Voltage. This does not > seem to be worth debating. I have yet to see a test where the Nimh > outperforms the Lifepo4. Does anyone have such data? On the contrary > there are many reports that under the same conditions the Lifepo4 is > superior. Nobody has turned this thread into a debate... You stated your 'opinion' - 'pathetic'. I've replied with some facts and my personal experience. You say there are many reports... what reports, where are they, give us some links. To just blindly state 'there are reports' is, in my mind, meaningless. Put some empirical data in front of us instead of words like 'pathetic', provide facts. If you want to continue to 'hash over' or 'debate', then stay on the other forums. > 3. Smoothing the graph or having a relatively small sample size does not > change the outcome. The sample is of sufficient size that it would be a > statistical rabbit trick to say that the lab conditions are more gentle than real > life (on average). All vehicles produced are not part of the test. Ford Escape > Hybrid taxis in NY have logged upwards of 175,000 miles on Nimh and still > going... Great. Now Ford is moving to what I believe is a superior battery > chemistry. If implemented properly, the next generation results should be > even better. Ninh has a fairly spotty record in production vehicles. Let's > hope Lifepo4 does a bit better. I think all that was being said was that it seems that the Ford Lithium statements seemed like 'forward looking statements' that many companies make to dress up their product, make their product seem better. Just like drug companies that advertise their product and then have 20 pages of 'watch out for these side effects'. Why can't Ford publish the full report? Or at least provide a link where it can be viewed? I'll bet if they charged $50 or so, like the SAE does for full specifications, then people would spend the 50 or so for the full report. > 4. Does everyone here know where they fall in the Meyers Briggs > personality test? The arguments made tell much more about an individuals > perception of the data than the data itself. It is very useful to at least be > aware of where you are in relation to others. People without this > awareness often think they are "right". In reality we all skew the data in our > minds, focusing on certain aspects more than others. What??? Are you going to provide a graph so that we can see where on the Meyers Briggs..... And I couldn't agree with you more, we ALL skew our data... but the goal should be to present accurate data so others can draw similar conclusions and then move on to the next step. Rush www.TucsonEV.com _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
