Peter, That looks like a steel, shouldered or flanged, stud with a zinc chromate finish. You can torque a Belleviille onto that no problem. M8 is a lot of bolt and a lot of clamping force. You would want a LOT of thread depth and engagement into aluminum to make an M8 work.
Looks like Toyota has given you the ultimate. A Belleville acts like a flat washer, and just in case, offers some compliance if, say, a service person doesn't torque it right down the line. I can assure everyone that Toyota manages the torquing of all fasteners very well (including a regular calibration schedule for the wrenches) and you don't find loose bolts on Toyotas that have not been handled by someone else. Mike On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Peter Gabrielsson < peter.gabriels...@gmail.com> wrote: > Here's a picture of what Toyota use in their prius battery terminals: > http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/batbox/80corropen.jpg > > Notice the nut with the captive bellville washer. They used the same type > in their RAV4 EVs. > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Michael Ross <michael.e.r...@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > Martin, > > > > I have no experience with the aluminum post cells. But it is just > > aluminum. Aluminum is elastic and will not take a set, so it is just > fine > > for torquing to a level that will not give up. From my POV there is not > > much more to be said about it. The use of split washes concentrates the > > clamping forces and make the joint less effective. They are a waste of > > money and stack height from a design engineer's POV. But if you use them > > it is probably not a problem. They only work as a lock after the joint > is > > completely loose, however; and they don't actually stop the joint from > > loosening before that point. The loss of joint clamping force is caused > by > > materials in the joint stretching or compressing. You won't find a > split > > washer on a Cat, Deere, Toyota, Ford, you name it product. However they > > are popular no denying that. With Al for a threaded member you don't > need > > hardened washers, because you can't clamp hard enough to get utility from > > them. But you do want flat, clean, metal only, parts in the stack. > > Belleville washers are not a bad idea, they help maintain clamping force > > as a joint loosens. Maybe the Norlocks do some of that too. > > > > > > Dave Roden, > > > > Head bolts have hardened flat washers. They use large fasteners as and > > torque them VERY high to completely take any compliance out of the head > > gasket, and many use a torque to yield technique where you don't even > > measure the torque* per se *- you torque until the bolt stretches > > permanently. With good steel and high quality manufacture you can take a > > head bolt into the plastic range and it will not be damaged to cause > > failure, if you do this you get the maximum force possible. > > > > > > Lot's of nice replies, but I just hit these two for commenting in the > short > > time I have right now. > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 11:09 AM, EVDL Administrator <evp...@drmm.net> > > wrote: > > > > > On 8 Jan 2014 at 6:03, tomw wrote: > > > > > > > And while you are at it, remove those lock washers! :^)) > > > > > > I'm really surprised to hear people say this. I've used split washers > > and > > > Bellville washers on batteries for 25+ years, and they've done me well. > > > > > > I also can't recall ever encountering any bolted battery connection on > > any > > > commercial product that didn't have a lockwasher. And think about it - > > > have > > > you ever seen any case in a vibrating, lurching vehicle where there > > wasn't > > > something resilient (a head gasket for example) that lockwashers > weren't > > > used? > > > > > > One thing to be careful of is that you want your lug in direct contact > > with > > > the battery terminal itself, with no washers between them to add > > > resistance. > > > You add the washer(s) between the fastener and the lug. > > > > > > Some discussion too of terminal glop. With flooded batteries, I > normally > > > use petroleum jelly to exclude air and moisture. Many years ago I got > a > > > free can of some kind of Cosmolene-like spray with an order of USBMC > golf > > > car batteries. That stuff worked well too and was easy to use. The > > key, I > > > think, is that I put the goo on AFTER tightening the connection, not on > > the > > > mating contact surfaces. (Though I've known people who DID use grease > on > > > mating surfaces.) > > > > > > I don't think I've ever bothered with grease when using valve regulated > > > batteries, however. Maybe I should have, but nothing bad has yet > > happened. > > > > > > To get back to the point, I'm pretty skeptical about washerless battery > > > connections. If you try this, please make sure you keep us updated on > > how > > > it's going over time. For now, though, I'm sticking with lockwashers. > > > > > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA > > > EVDL Administrator > > > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not > > > reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my > > > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain > > happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? > > *Dalai Lama * > > > > Tell me what it is you plan to do > > With your one wild and precious life? > > Mary Oliver, "The summer day." > > > > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. > > Thomas A. Edison< > > http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> > > > > A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. > > *Warren Buffet* > > > > Michael E. Ross > > (919) 550-2430 Land > > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google > > Phone > > (919) 631-1451 Cell > > (919) 513-0418 Desk > > > > michael.e.r...@gmail.com > > <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140108/bc05de28/attachment.htm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > -- > www.electric-lemon.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140108/512cfd4b/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, "The summer day." To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140108/38e270a8/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
