Resending, as it seems that the server ate it. ---------
Hi Bruce, I greatly appreciate the news stories you bring, and hope you continue your good work for a long time to come. While I disagree with your opinion about fuel cells, I respect your right to those opinions. But, you ought to be accurate in your facts. I know that the press is sometimes loose with those facts, so offer a few factual corrections below, with the recognition that I may also make a mistake or two. See below, and I have trimmed your comments to only items relevant to my responses. (And according to the group charter, this is on-topic, though my preference is hearing about the great projects that people are doing with battery electrics) On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:22 PM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Key points to note on the EV-history timeline: > > -Though TMC sez 2016 is when their fcvs will be available, they have stated > $63k is the starting price. Note that is lower than the new cost of the > lowest priced Tesla-S trim. The cost that they have announced is $57,500, before rebates, or $499/month for a lease, with some cash up front. If you're in California, as I am, the cost is likely less than $45,000. That includes all fuel for three years, all maintenance (and they will pick up your call for maintenance), and possibly other benefits that I've forgotten. > And also note that automakers have been touting > fcvs 'are just around the corner' for years, so do not be surprised if their > actual release to the public date is pushed out yet again, like after a > Presidential election (hint, hint, wink, wink, etc.). Hyundai has already been making them available to the public, but Honda has pushed out their date due to the recall issues that you've likely heard that the industry is having. > -Almost all newswires use common wording (likely provided by the automakers) > that have 'electric vehicle' and or ' electric car' in it. While most do > not say their fcv is an EV, those words are thrown in so as to make their > newswires be found on news searches (I do it for free, other people search > for investment info, etc.). As if they are not electric vehicles? They are. > > -Some interesting playing with the wording is happening: while none of the > fcv newswires mention the h2 comes from cheap natural gas, and no one is > saying what is done with the gunk left over after the h2 > extraction/reforming, they are touting some electric-only mile ranges (~30+ > miles), because the fcvs have a small li-ion pack (not unlike a > plug-in-hybrid). Perhaps that's because the hydrogen can come from many different places, including natural gas, biogas, wind and solar. To suggest that it's all coming from natural gas would be misleading, and is frankly irrelevant to the product that *they* sell. > > Even some wording that the puny-pack is a range-extender: 'with a > combination of a hydrogen fuel cell and a range-extending lithium-ion > battery' That's true. The batteries are bigger than that of a normal car, but smaller than the packs in a pure battery electric. > > -The few natural-gas/cng newswires ... Sorry, I drive a CNG vehicle, a much cleaner choice than the others that were available to me. > 'coming' h2 fcvs (which are really equivalent to natural-gas using/burning > old-school hybrid vehicle: using a fossil chemical fuel, with a few Electric > components so automakers can confuse the public by touting fcvs as electric, > etc.). No, not equivalent to the hybrid in terms of emissions and impacts on public health; and yes, as electric as a battery EV. > > -'5minute refueling time' is still the big fcv wording push, but the future > TMC fcv mentioned above only has a 300mi h2-range. That translates to more > than 5min Why do you think their 5 minute claim is incorrect? > > -None of the chemical-refueling cost$ of fcvs are ever mentioned in the > newswires (as in no price is set yet). The vehicles that were announced include the cost of fuel in the price of the vehicle. Good for consumers, and mainly having to do with weights and measures issues. > I hope that when they do, they had > better put in terms the public will understand and use to compare running > co$t$. Amen. I agree 100%. _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
