Actually, all the public hydrogen refueling stations are in three states; California, Connecticut, and South Carolina. There are 13 in the US total.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_locations.html Mike On November 22, 2014 7:28:07 AM MST, robert winfield via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: >"Most of the hydrogen in the United States is produced by steam >reforming of natural gas. For the near term, this production method >will continue to dominate. Researchers at NREL are developing advanced >processes to produce hydrogen economically from sustainable >resources"At present, just in the US. we already have an electrical >grid with billion of outlets that can be used to charge EV's. Mine is >about 25ft from my PHEV.At present there are few H2 fueling stations, >less than 100 and most are many miles from vehicles.I applaud your >wanting accuracy. >Could you comment on the present delta energy also to fuel? from all my >reading and study, disallowing future methods that are either >unrealized ideas or still in the labs and non commercial.ie whats there >now.... >From what I can tell the purveyors and cheerleaders of Hydrogen fuel >cells basicallyhave huge sunk costs, huge investments, both >intellectual and monetary and haveto justify those and refuse to be >honest about the true costs of the entirefuel supply lineyou have to >include the whole chain, not just the "only H2O >exhaust."respectfullyrobert > > >NREL: Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Research - Hydrogen Production and >Delivery > >| | >| | | | | | | | >| NREL: Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Research - Hydrogen Pr...Printable >Version Hydrogen Production and Delivery Most of the hydrogen in the >United States is produced by steam reforming of natural gas. | >| | >| View on www.nrel.gov | Preview by Yahoo | >| | >| | > > > From: Mark Abramowitz via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> >To: brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ><ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 5:23 PM >Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: status> the newswires are changing, & $till >being manipulated > >Resending, as it seems that the server ate it. > >--------- > >Hi Bruce, > >I greatly appreciate the news stories you bring, and hope you continue >your good work for a long time to come. > >While I disagree with your opinion about fuel cells, I respect your >right to those opinions. But, you ought to be accurate in your facts. >I know that the press is sometimes loose with those facts, so offer a >few factual corrections below, with the recognition that I may also >make a mistake or two. > >See below, and I have trimmed your comments to only items relevant to >my responses. > >(And according to the group charter, this is on-topic, though my >preference is hearing about the great projects that people are doing >with battery electrics) > > > >On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:22 PM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > >> Key points to note on the EV-history timeline: >> >> -Though TMC sez 2016 is when their fcvs will be available, they have >stated >> $63k is the starting price. Note that is lower than the new cost of >the >> lowest priced Tesla-S trim. > >The cost that they have announced is $57,500, before rebates, or >$499/month for a lease, with some cash up front. If you're in >California, as I am, the cost is likely less than $45,000. That >includes all fuel for three years, all maintenance (and they will pick >up your call for maintenance), and possibly other benefits that I've >forgotten. > > >> And also note that automakers have been touting >> fcvs 'are just around the corner' for years, so do not be surprised >if their >> actual release to the public date is pushed out yet again, like after >a >> Presidential election (hint, hint, wink, wink, etc.). > >Hyundai has already been making them available to the public, but Honda >has pushed out their date due to the recall issues that you've likely >heard that the industry is having. > >> -Almost all newswires use common wording (likely provided by the >automakers) >> that have 'electric vehicle' and or ' electric car' in it. While >most do >> not say their fcv is an EV, those words are thrown in so as to make >their >> newswires be found on news searches (I do it for free, other people >search >> for investment info, etc.). > >As if they are not electric vehicles? They are. > > >> >> -Some interesting playing with the wording is happening: while none >of the >> fcv newswires mention the h2 comes from cheap natural gas, and no one >is >> saying what is done with the gunk left over after the h2 >> extraction/reforming, they are touting some electric-only mile ranges >(~30+ >> miles), because the fcvs have a small li-ion pack (not unlike a >> plug-in-hybrid). > >Perhaps that's because the hydrogen can come from many different >places, including natural gas, biogas, wind and solar. To suggest that >it's all coming from natural gas would be misleading, and is frankly >irrelevant to the product that *they* sell. > > >> >> Even some wording that the puny-pack is a range-extender: 'with a >> combination of a hydrogen fuel cell and a range-extending lithium-ion >> battery' > >That's true. The batteries are bigger than that of a normal car, but >smaller than the packs in a pure battery electric. > > >> >> -The few natural-gas/cng newswires ... > >Sorry, I drive a CNG vehicle, a much cleaner choice than the others >that were available to me. > > >> 'coming' h2 fcvs (which are really equivalent to natural-gas >using/burning >> old-school hybrid vehicle: using a fossil chemical fuel, with a few >Electric >> components so automakers can confuse the public by touting fcvs as >electric, >> etc.). > >No, not equivalent to the hybrid in terms of emissions and impacts on >public health; and yes, as electric as a battery EV. > > >> >> -'5minute refueling time' is still the big fcv wording push, but the >future >> TMC fcv mentioned above only has a 300mi h2-range. That translates to >more >> than 5min > >Why do you think their 5 minute claim is incorrect? > >> >> -None of the chemical-refueling cost$ of fcvs are ever mentioned in >the >> newswires (as in no price is set yet). > >The vehicles that were announced include the cost of fuel in the price >of the vehicle. Good for consumers, and mainly having to do with >weights and measures issues. > >> I hope that when they do, they had >> better put in terms the public will understand and use to compare >running >> co$t$. > >Amen. I agree 100%. > >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141122/2adec042/attachment.htm> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
