On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 9:26 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ricardo: I hate to become a nothingologist, but if you REMOVE things to > make NOTHING you still have the remnanat (empty space, hole, potential of > 'it' having been there or whatever) from WHERE you removed it. IMO in > Nothing there is not even a "where" identified. > But the space gets removed too ... I'm not sure if I understand you. Ricardo. > Forgive me the 'light' reply, please. > John M > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 5:17 PM, R AM <ramra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:46 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Ricardo: >>> good text! I may add to it: >>> "Who created Nothing? - of course: Nobody". (The ancient joke of >>> Odysseus towards Polyphemos: 'Nobody' has hurt me). >>> >>> Just one thing: if it contains (includes) EMPTY SPACE, it includes >>> space, it is not nothing. >>> >> >> I actually meant that most of the time, people say "nothing" when they >> mean Newtonian empty space. I agree that "nothing" is not empty space. >> >> >>> And please, do not forget about my adage in the previous post that >>> limits (borders) are similarly not includable into nothing, so it must be >>> an infinite - well - "nothing". >>> It still may contain things we have no knowledge about and in such case >>> it is NOT nothing. We just are ignorant. >>> >> >> I agree that if it contains things, then it is not "nothing", but you can >> "create" a "nothing" by removing them. >> >> Ricardo. >> >> >>> JM >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 1:06 PM, R AM <ramra...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Some thoughts about "nothing": >>>> >>>> - If nothing has no properties, and a limitation is considered a >>>> property, then "nothing" cannot have any limitations, including the >>>> limitation of generating "something". Therefore, "something" may come from >>>> "nothing". >>>> >>>> - Given that something exists, it is possible that something exists >>>> (obviously). The later would be true even if "nothing" was the case. >>>> Therefore, we should envision the state of "nothing" co-existing with the >>>> possibility of "something" existing, which is rather bizarre. >>>> >>>> - Why should "nothing" be the default state? I think this is based on >>>> the intuition that "nothing" would require no explanation, whereas >>>> "something" requires an explanation. However, given that the possibility of >>>> something existing is necessarily true, an explanation would be required >>>> for why there is "nothing" instead of "something". >>>> >>>> - There are many ways something can exist, but just one of nothing >>>> existing. Therefore, "nothing" is less likely :-) >>>> >>>> - I think the intuition that "nothing" requires less explanation than >>>> the universe we observe is based on a generalization of the idea of >>>> classical empty space. However, this intuition is based on what we know >>>> about *this* universe (i.e. empty space is simpler than things existing in >>>> it). But why this intuition about *our* reality should be extrapolated to >>>> metaphysics? >>>> >>>> - I think that the important question is why this universe instead of >>>> any other universe? (including "nothing"). >>>> >>>> Ricardo. >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 6:24 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 5, 2012 John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Is it so hard to understand a "word"? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, the word "nothing" keeps evolving. Until about a hundred years >>>>> ago "nothing" just meant a vacuum, space empty of any matter; then a few >>>>> years later the meaning was expanded to include lacking any energy too, >>>>> then still later it meant also not having space, and then it meant not >>>>> even >>>>> having time. Something that is lacking matter energy time and space may >>>>> not >>>>> be the purest form of nothing but it is, you must admit, a pretty pitiful >>>>> "thing", and if science can explain (and someday it very well may be able >>>>> to) how our world with all it's beautiful complexity came to be from such >>>>> modest beginnings then that would not be a bad days work, and to call such >>>>> activities "incredibly shallow" as some on this list have is just idiotic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *>** N O T H I N G - *is not a set of anything, no potential >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then the question "can something come from nothing?" has a obvious and >>>>> extremely dull answer. >>>>> >>>>> > I wrote once a little silly 'ode' about ontology. I started: >>>>>> "In the beginning there was Nothingness. >>>>>> And when Nothingness realised it's nothingness >>>>>> It turned into Somethingness >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then your version of nothing had something, the potential to produce >>>>> something. I also note the use of the word "when", thus time, which is >>>>> something, existed in your "nothing" universe as well as potential. >>>>> >>>>> John K Clark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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