Bruno:
>From the perspective of semiotic theory, a subjective universe seems rather obvious. Consider that the Turing machine is computational omniscient solely as a consequence of its construction, and yet, it can hardly be said that the engineer who designed the Turing machine (why, Turing, himself!) intentioned to put into that machine as computable computations. Somehow, where information is concerned, context is king. wrb From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:09 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Why AI is impossible William, On 12 Aug 2012, at 18:01, William R. Buckley wrote: Roger: Nothing in the universe is objective. Objectivity is an ideal. When the physicist seeks to make some measure of the physical universe, he or she necessarily must use some other part of the physical universe by which to obtain that measure. QED. You are quick here. The physical universe is purely subjective. That follows from comp in a constructive way, that is, by giving the means to derive physics from a theory of subejectivity. With comp any first order logical theory of a universal system will do, and the laws of physics and the laws of mind are not dependent of the choice of the initial universal system. Bruno wrb From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 5:35 AM To: everything-list Subject: Why AI is impossible Hi Evgenii Rudnyi This is not going to make you computer folks happy, sorry. Life is whatever can experience its surroundings, nonlife cannot do so. That's the difference. Intelligence requires the ability to experience what it is selecting. So only life can have intelligence. Life is subjective, nonlife is objective. Computers cannot experience anything because they are not subjective, only objective. Everytthing must be in words, not directly experienced. Thus computers cannot be (truly) intelligent. And AI is impossible, because only living items can experience the world.. Roger , <mailto:rclo...@verizon.net> rclo...@verizon.net 8/12/2012 ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Evgenii Rudnyi <mailto:use...@rudnyi.ru> Receiver: everything-list <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> Time: 2012-08-11, 10:22:44 Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers in AI ordescribing life On 11.08.2012 15:13 Stephen P. King said the following: > On 8/11/2012 4:30 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: >> On 10.08.2012 00:55 Russell Standish said the following: >>> The point being that life need not be intelligent. In fact 999.9% of >>> life (but whatever measure, numbers, biomass etc) is unintelligent. >>> >>> The study of artificial life by the same reason need not be a study of >>> artitificial intelligence, although because of a biases as an >>> intelligent species, a significantly higher fraction of alife research >>> is about AI. >>> >> >> What does intelligence means in this context that life is >> unintelligent? Let us compare for example a bacterium and a rock. >> Where there is more intelligence? >> >> Evgenii >> > Dear Evgenii, > > A bacterium and a rock should not be put head to (no)head in this > question. A bacterium has autonomy while a rock does not. It is better > to see that the rock is just a small piece of an autonomous whole and > then compare that whole to the (whole) bacterium. > My goal was just to try to understand what Russell meant by life is unintelligent. Say let us take some creations of AI and compare them with a bacterium. Where do we find more intelligence? Evgenii -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. <mailto:%20everything-l...@googlegroups.com.> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. <mailto:%20unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
