Hi Bruno Marchal I think you can tell is 1p isn't just a shell by trying to converse with it. If it can converse, it's got a mind of its own.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/18/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-17, 13:36:13 Subject: Re: Solipsism = 1p On 17 Oct 2012, at 13:07, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Bruno > > Solipsism is a property of 1p= Firstness = subjectivity OK. And non solipsism is about attributing 1p to others, which needs some independent 3p reality you can bet one, for not being only part of yourself. Be it a God, or a physical universe, or an arithmetical reality. Bruno > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 10/17/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Alberto G. Corona > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-10-16, 09:55:41 > Subject: Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of "as if" > rather than"is" > > > > > > 2012/10/11 Bruno Marchal > > > On 10 Oct 2012, at 20:13, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > > 2012/10/10 Bruno Marchal : > > > On 09 Oct 2012, at 18:58, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > > It may be a zombie or not. I can? know. > > The same applies to other persons. It may be that the world is made of > zombie-actors that try to cheat me, but I have an harcoded belief in > the conventional thing. ? Maybe it is, because otherwise, I will act > in strange and self destructive ways. I would act as a paranoic, after > that, as a psycopath (since they are not humans). That will not be > good for my success in society. Then, ? doubt that I will have any > surviving descendant that will develop a zombie-solipsist > epistemology. > > However there are people that believe these strange things. Some > autists do not recognize humans as beings like him. Some psychopaths > too, in a different way. There is no authistic or psichopathic > epistemology because the are not functional enough to make societies > with universities and philosophers. That is the whole point of > evolutionary epistemology. > > > > > If comp leads to solipsism, I will apply for being a plumber. > > I don't bet or believe in solipsism. > > But you were saying "that a *conscious* robot" can lack a soul. See > the > quote just below. > > That is what I don't understand. > > Bruno > > > > I think that It is not comp what leads to solipsism but any > existential stance that only accept what is certain and discard what > is only belief based on ?onjectures. > > It can go no further than ?"cogito ergo sum" > > > > > OK. But that has nothing to do with comp. That would conflate the 8 > person points in only one of them (the "feeler, probably). Only the > feeler is that solipsist, at the level were he feels, but the > machine's self manage all different points of view, and the living > solipsist (each of us) is not mandate to defend the solipsist > doctrine (he is the only one existing)/ he is the only one he can > feel, that's all. That does not imply the non existence of others > and other things. > > > That pressuposes a lot of things that I have not for granted. I have > to accept my beliefs as such beliefs to be at the same time rational > and functional. With respect to the others consciousness, being > humans or robots, I can only have faith. No matter if I accept that > this is a matter of faith or not. > ? > I still don't see what you mean by consciousness without a soul. > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2012/10/9 Bruno Marchal : > > > > On 09 Oct 2012, at 13:29, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > > But still after this reasoning, ? doubt that the self conscious > philosopher robot have the kind of thing, call it a soul, that I have. > > > ? > > You mean it is a zombie? > > I can't conceive consciousness without a soul. Even if only the > universal > one. > So I am not sure what you mean by soul. > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > > > > > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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