On 21 Jan 2013, at 18:11, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Monday, January 21, 2013 11:53:07 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
Science had to fight every inch of the way against theology and
theologians and the fight still isn't over.
That is a fiction of historical revisionism. Science is a kind of
philosophy, philosophy is a refinement of theology. You will never
find a civilization which has developed science without philosophy
or philosophy without some kind of spiritual framework of cosmology.
That's just the facts, man. The founders of Western Enlightenment
science would be quite surprised to hear that their invention of
science was a fight against theology as they were profoundly
theological and philosophical in their orientation. It is only
recently, as the limitations of the narrow Western approach are
being revealed on a global scale, that science has fallen into a
fundamentalist pathology which makes an enemy of teleology.
... Theology, I guess you meant. Good point.
If you can't immediately figure out how something can be the way it
is theology advises you to just give up and say "God did it";
Now that we can give up and say "Evolution did it", things are much
better, eh?
in other words theologians are intellectually lazy, but fortunately
scientists are not.
Scientists are modern theologians.
Well, scientists are "current theologians". But as such they are less
modern than the greeks. In particular, they hide the metaphysical
hypotheses. Theye are not aware of them, most of the time, with few
exceptions.
Theologians are pre-scientific scientists.
Hmm.. OK.
But they do have something in common, they both love mysteries.
Theologians love mysteries because they like to wallow in ignorance,
scientists love mysteries because it gives them something new to try
to figure out.
A Manichean mythology of prejudice. What new mystery are you trying
to figure out?
That's why particle physicists would be absolutely delighted if the
LHC produced something mysterious that contradicted something they
thought they knew and will be very disappointed if nothing like that
shows up in one of their detectors. Can you imagine a theologian
being delighted to find something that contradicted his faith? I
can't.
You grandly overestimate the integrity of modern science. Can you
imagine how many physicists there would be at the LHC if it paid the
same as being a theologian? Can you imagine a scientist finding
something that contradicted his potential for future paychecks?
> What is your theory?
That theologians are so dumb they can't walk and chew gum at the
same time.
Sounds like a well-founded scientific theory. "Whatever I dislike is
the stupidest thing in the world."
Some people believe authoritative arguments, if not insults, can be
use instead of reason and argument. I think that they are
fundamentalists.
Bruno
Craig
John k Clark
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