On 1/21/2013 8:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 21 Jan 2013, at 16:37, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be
<mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:
On 20 Jan 2013, at 17:21, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be
<mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:
> There is no "field" of theology, removing the fairy tale aspect
of it
would be like removing the skin of a toy balloon.
> To say that there is no "field" of theology is equivalent to say "I
know the
answer to the fundamental questions",
It is equivalent to saying that the "field" of theology has never once in
its
entire history explained anything about anything.
It led to monism and science. You confuse theology and post 500 occidental
use of
the field. Theology did come up with the idea that there is a reality, and
that
reason can unravelled it, or a part of it. The religious feeling starts
when you
develop faith, like when you believe that you have parents and that things
occurs
for a reason. Without spiritual faith there is no science at all, nor even
technic.
Bruno,
What you say above reminded me of what Einstein said on religion:
"Now, even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked
off from each other, nevertheless there exist between the two strong reciprocal
relationships and dependencies. Though religion may be that which determines the goal,
it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will
contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be
created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and
understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To
this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the
world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive
of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by
an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Hi Jason,
Nice quote which illustrates well what I try to convey to John Clark.
It is important to get this to be open of how comp makes this even "scientific" (that
is, deductible from hypotheses made clear. It does not mean true).
The greeks, it seems to me, were quite aware of this double-way dependency at the start.
The problem is that we have completely separated science from religion, with the
automated result that many confuse science with a new kind of religion, even unconsciously.
You can guess this with the way most popular media abuse of the term "know" when
describing scientific results.
And symmetrically, others will confuse religion-fairy-tales with another kind of
science (like the creationists for example.
Science is nothing more than curiosity, clarity and modesty. It is the necessary
attitude in both religion and science.
And I have said once that science is the tool and religion is the goal, and I am glad
that Einstein agrees that religion is the goal. It is rare to hear that from a
scientists, for the obvious reason that many religions have been used as a perverted
political tools to manipulate the people since a long time.
But Einstein did not believe in a god. He had religious feeling for the universe and the
search for knowledge. He decried the use of his name to support the common Abrahamic
religions. He wrote:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious
convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do
not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but
have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be
called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the
structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
---Albert Einstein, 1954, "Albert Einstein: The Human Side"
Brent
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