On 24 Oct 2013, at 21:46, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
That will not increase precision unless you give a name (and NOT a
pronoun!) to the guy who wrote the diary, if its "Mr. The Guy Who Is
Experiencing Helsinki On October 21 2013" then the probability "he"
will experience Washington is zero.
> Ridiculous, because in that case would implies [you] die in a
duplication or teletransportation experiences.
^
^^
Who would die? "YOU" would die. If you put a gun to Bruno Marchal's
head Bruno Marchal could still not coherently explain Bruno
Marchal's ideas about indeterminacy without using pronouns, the most
indeterminate part of the English language and made even more so by
duplicating chambers.
In that case "you" would die in any sense of "you" on which we have
already, so you betray that you are not trying to understand the
question.
> Do you think that [you] die in a self-duplication experience?
^^^
We've been through this, it depends on who the hell "you" is. Is
"you" the guy who remembers being John Clark yesterday,
We have already agree that "you" concerns the guy(s) who will remember
having been in Helsinki.
or the guy who is seeing Helsinki right now
You can take this one, as we know that such a guy will survive the
duplication (assuming comp).
, or the guy that will see Washington tomorrow,
Yes, it concerns also that guy, given that he has survived and he
remembers being the H-guy.
or the guy that will see Moscow tomorrow?
Same.
Bad ideas always sound better if they are imprecisely expressed, and
there is no better way to do that than using lots of personal
pronouns in a world that has people duplicating chambers in it.
There is no problem with the use of pronouns in comp, once you make
the 1p/3p distinction. There is just an obvious indeterminacy, as it
is a childplay that any attempt to give a definite city-prediction
will fail. But the prediction "it will be one city among W and M, but
I don't know which one", if predicted in helsinki and written in the
diary, will never be contradicted in the subsequent history written in
any subsequent diary.
You are the only one who seems to see a difficulty here. Some have
difficulties because they are shocked, as it can hurt personal
prejudices, but in all cases they are as much shocked by Everett than
by comp.
Sorry John, but I continue to fail to see what is your problem at step
3,. You find the use of pronouns imprecise, and at the same time seems
to criticize the 1/3 distinction, in a non comprehensible way, when it
add the necessary precision.
In the math part the 3p "you" is made precise in arithmetic with the
usual method (the Dx = "xx" method), and the 1p "you" is identify with
the (personal knower) provided by applying Theaetetus' definition of
knowledge on the provability predicate.
If anyone understand what John Clark try to explain, don't hesitate.
As Quentin said, with others at other times, it looks like there is no
point at all, and the reason why he stops at step 3 is just mysterious.
Bruno
John K Clark
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