On Monday, February 17, 2014 8:33:48 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > > Russell, > > All of science assumes an external reality independent of human > observation. >
Only for the last few centuries. Before that, natural philosophy was firmly grounded in the assumption of parallel-symmetric relation between interior experience and exterior events. Relativity and Quantum theory show that there is no scientific reason to insist that there could be any reality which is external to (some form of) observation (not necessarily human). > Science is what gives us by far our most accurate view of the universe. So > what is your reasoning to reject this fundamental assumption of science? > > Can you define your "intersubjective reality"? Does it include all humans? > Does it exclude rats and other non-human life forms? > http://multisenserealism.com/thesis/6-panpsychism/eigenmorphism/ > Do you think this intersubjective reality actually somehow creates the > non-human or non-living universe? Did it create the stars and galaxies, or > are they only figments of our collective consciousness? > Consciousness is the only reality, so they are not figments. They are concretely real, but they are real experiences that appear to us in a collapsed view as objects, rather than complete 3D objects in 4D space. Experience is trans-dimensional. Craig > > Please explain... > > Edgar > > On Sunday, February 16, 2014 6:54:48 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: >> >> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 01:40:15PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >> > Russell, >> > >> > Well, there is overwhelming evidence of many sorts. The very fact that >> you >> > and I can even communicate about this issue is one proof, unless you >> think >> > I'm just a pesky figment of your imagination! >> >> It is evidence only of an intersubjective reality. That there is a >> common reality (to us) that we can agree on. Indeed, COMP, to take one >> theory of consciousness, predicts the existence of such an >> intersubjective >> reality. But, it is not evidence of a reality independent of all >> observers. >> >> > >> > And of course that can't possibly be true since I was here just fine >> before >> > I ever met you.... >> > >> > The obvious fact that we have to eat and breathe to survive, unless you >> > believe that just imagining food and oxygen is enough to sustain us. >> > >> >> That is evidence of the Anthropic Principle (there is much stronger >> evidence of that too), ie what we observe as reality must be >> consistent with our existence within that reality. The Anthropic >> Principle >> does not imply an observer independent reality - that would be a >> reverse syllogism fallacy. >> >> > So again I would say you are confusing the internal simulation of >> reality >> > that all minds produce, and that everyone thinks is the real world he >> lives >> > in, with the real external reality that all minds simulate each in >> their >> > own way. >> > >> >> Keep going. You still haven't provided any evidence that this "real >> external reality" actually exists! Until you do so, I will state that >> there is nothing here to confuse. Of course, if you actually succeed, >> not only will many people be surprised, you will undoubtedly be the >> most famous philosopher since Aristotle and Plato. >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >> Principal, High Performance Coders >> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpc...@hpcoders.com.au >> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
