On 03 Apr 2014, at 17:46, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
They're trying to find that jet that got lost on the Indian Ocean
somewhere. But most of the objects the satellites zoom in on are
just... trash. Ocean garbage is creating so many false positives,
that it impedes finding a missing plane.
You don't even have to be "green" to understand that it's not
productive or rational to keep having mountains of redundant
material and poison keep accumulating and multiplying around us. The
"discussion" in the total black white form displayed occasionally in
this thread, is a U.S. phenomenon.
Everybody else has moved on from yes/no to the how-question and its
economic, political, regulatory traps/subtleties, which, with
prohibition background, are complex/insane enough.
For instance, people I know involved in monitoring plant species to
assess efficacy of local measures to help biodiversity do its thing,
are often trapped in some political game of stakeholders.
Scientists: "It would be good to reseed those plots properly with
local species now." Green Politics/Money: "Don't do it now! Wait
until next year, so we have more 'devastation leverage' in our data.
Otherwise, no contract."
So yes, prohibition/politics are very much intertwined with the
question and hinder simple scientific common sense; even by the
"green political conspirators". PGC
If we tolerate lies in politics, like we did with cannabis, lies can
only spread, and we loss power, and can no more trust the politicians,
and eventually larger and larger layer of the society.
After the watergate americans voted for a capping (limitation) of
money that we can give for electoral campaign, but this has just been
removed (yesterday!). That is not good news.
Yes, I think the "climate problem" is only a symptom of a bigger and
deeper problem, about the very working of the democracies, and its
perversion by the grey money, the fear selling, if not the
catastrophes merchandising. Some banks invests in catastrophes,
bankruptcy, etc.
Bruno
On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 02 Apr 2014, at 23:03, LizR wrote:
On 3 April 2014 05:56, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of smi...@zonnet.nl
It is the belief that the scentists can be trusted to do the
research they
are supposed to do in a scientifically responsible way, vs. the
belief in
the conspiracy theory that the entire scientific field has been
hijacked by
ultra left wing environmental pressure groups.
Saibal
A conspiracy theory that has become spread through massive funding
by the
big holders of fossil carbon reserves -- seeking to protect the
future
valuation of those reserves, which has a large impact on the current
valuation of their carbon holdings. An eminently rational (if
cynical)
motive, for these narrow carbon interests, but one that has sowed
confusion
and doubt, using the same "junk science" (and "left wing hijacked
science")
accusations that were perfected by Big Tobacco in the preceding
decades. It
worked then for Big Tobacco and this same strategy of sowing
falsehoods, is
working now for the big carbon interests.
Exactly. It's even been making some headway in the interests of
denying evolution, for God (as it were) knows what reason.
That is why I don't think politics is possible as long as
prohibition continue. It has been used as a sort of Trojan horse for
bandits, and they will sell you what they want.
Stopping prohibition will not be enough. We must separate politics
from money. We should vote on ideas and not humans. We should find a
way to prevent democracies against propaganda, if not corporatism.
The green should be ally with the antiprohibitionists. I do think
that "prohibition" is the deep reason of possible climate
perturbation, and economy.
Like the abandon of rationality in the "spiritual" is the deep
reason of why the non-sensical prohibition has seem conceivable today.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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