On 15 June 2014 18:12, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > On 6/14/2014 10:19 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 15 June 2014 16:49, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On 6/14/2014 9:37 PM, LizR wrote: >> >>> >>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140608-regret-rats-neuroscience-behavior-animals-science >>> >> >> Interesting that this experiment is all about qualia, which we're told >> are ineffable and can't be possessed by computers because they're not human. >> > > Yes. At least we assume there are qualia involved. The experiment only > measures their "neural correlates" (since you can't ask a rat what it's > experiencing, obviously that's all they can do, of course). > > But if you asked and the rat replied that would just be a different neural > correlate. > > No it wouldn't. That would be the rat introspecting and telling you about its subjective impressions. There would presumably be neural correlates to that process, which could in principle be detected, but the rat replying wouldn't be those, it would be the rat replying.
> However, I'm sure Bruno would be happy to allow a suitably programmed > computer to have qualia. > > Bruno proposes that consciousness goes along with being able to understand > the proof of Godel's incompleteness theorem. I think that's too high a > bar. There must be different levels and kinds of consciousness. > He does? I must admit I haven't come across that in the parts of comp I've tried to understand so far. Could you elucidate? > > And there's this experiment: > http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/36705/title/Manipulating-Mouse-Memory/ > > Which is another step toward being able to engineer consciousness. Once > that is possible, questions about qualia will seem just another way of > talking about neuroscience. > I don't see how they're engineering consciousness. Presumably the mouse's brain can do that (assuming mice are in fact conscious). As far as I can tell from the article, they appear to be creating false memories, i.e. changing what the mice are conscious *of*. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
