"Childrens' dreams are run with rats.." The WHO, Helpless Dancer.
-----Original Message-----
From: LizR <lizj...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 15, 2014 2:23 am
Subject: Re: "Rats! I should have done that, not this!"
On 15 June 2014 18:12, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 6/14/2014 10:19 PM, LizR wrote:
On 15 June 2014 16:49, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 6/14/2014 9:37 PM, LizR wrote:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140608-regret-rats-neuroscience-behavior-animals-science
Interesting that this experiment is all about qualia,
which we're told are ineffable and can't be possessed by
computers because they're not human.
Yes. At least we assume there are qualia involved. The experiment
only measures their "neural correlates" (since you can't ask a rat
what it's experiencing, obviously that's all they can do, of
course).
But if you asked and the rat replied that would just be a different neural
correlate.
No it wouldn't. That would be the rat introspecting and telling you about its
subjective impressions. There would presumably be neural correlates to that
process, which could in principle be detected, but the rat replying wouldn't be
those, it would be the rat replying.
However, I'm sure Bruno would be happy to allow a suitably
programmed computer to have qualia.
Bruno proposes that consciousness goes along with being able to understand
the proof of Godel's incompleteness theorem. I think that's too high a bar.
There must be different levels and kinds of consciousness.
He does? I must admit I haven't come across that in the parts of comp I've
tried to understand so far. Could you elucidate?
And there's this
experiment:http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/36705/title/Manipulating-Mouse-Memory/
Which is another step toward being able to engineer consciousness. Once
that is possible, questions about qualia will seem just another way of
talking about neuroscience.
I don't see how they're engineering consciousness. Presumably the mouse's brain
can do that (assuming mice are in fact conscious). As far as I can tell from
the article, they appear to be creating false memories, i.e. changing what the
mice are conscious of.
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