On 6/14/2014 11:23 PM, LizR wrote:
On 15 June 2014 18:12, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net
<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:
On 6/14/2014 10:19 PM, LizR wrote:
On 15 June 2014 16:49, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net
<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:
On 6/14/2014 9:37 PM, LizR wrote:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140608-regret-rats-neuroscience-behavior-animals-science
Interesting that this experiment is all about qualia, which we're told
are
ineffable and can't be possessed by computers because they're not human.
Yes. At least we assume there are qualia involved. The experiment only
measures
their "neural correlates" (since you can't ask a rat what it's experiencing,
obviously that's all they can do, of course).
But if you asked and the rat replied that would just be a different neural
correlate.
No it wouldn't. That would be the rat introspecting and telling you about its subjective
impressions. There would presumably be neural correlates to that process, which could in
principle be detected, but the rat replying wouldn't be those, it would be the rat replying.
However, I'm sure Bruno would be happy to allow a suitably programmed
computer to
have qualia.
Bruno proposes that consciousness goes along with being able to understand
the proof
of Godel's incompleteness theorem. I think that's too high a bar. There
must be
different levels and kinds of consciousness.
He does? I must admit I haven't come across that in the parts of comp I've tried to
understand so far. Could you elucidate?
Not really. I just asked him directly what would it take for a computer to be
conscious.
And there's this experiment:
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/36705/title/Manipulating-Mouse-Memory/
Which is another step toward being able to engineer consciousness. Once
that is
possible, questions about qualia will seem just another way of talking about
neuroscience.
I don't see how they're engineering consciousness.
I only said it was "a step toward".
Presumably the mouse's brain can do that (assuming mice are in fact conscious). As far
as I can tell from the article, they appear to be creating false memories, i.e. changing
what the mice are conscious /of/.
If you can determine what a mouse, or a computer, is conscious of then you've engineered
it. The point of using the word "engineer" is that engineering is about getting the right
effects; you don't necessarily need a deep theory to do engineering.
Brent
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