On 04 Apr 2015, at 19:04, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
My view is that rather than being a simulation, our universe and an
infinitude of others,are programs that yields physical universes, as
a programmatic process.
?
That seems contradictory. Being a simulation means being brought by a
program implemented in some universal number relation (physically
realized or not, at first).
The underlying software and hardware are more real than the reality
we sense,
OK, so we can take the simplest one: elementary arithmetic, for example.
but our lives are very real.
In the case above, our lives are very epistemologically, or
phenomenologically real.
Underneath everything is organized data, programs, processes, and
pipelines to other universes (or parts of a greater very big
universe).
This is like using a God in an explanation. Why to introduce a
universe to make programs and program execution, when we know that
already exists once we assume elementary arithmetic? (with some
measure that we can test so that we can test the hypothesis).
So theoretically, humans and galaxies and bacteria, get promoted (as
in software) to other places. I am stealing from Eric Steinhart's
Promotion hypothesis, to suit my own pitiful intellect, and emotions.
It is OK, but you don't need universes, still less other bigger
universe. The whole of real math and physics use a tiny amount of
arithmetical truth. Only logicians, category theorists and theologian
needs sometimes to refer to the big one, the whole of the arithmetical
reality, that we cannot even define from inside. That is *very* big.
Bruno
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 4, 2015 11:10 am
Subject: Re: The Object
Nice! Quite Platonist! "We never invent anything---we always only
discover." would assess a platonist.
Bruno
On 07 Jan 2015, at 23:54, Jason Resch wrote:
From Douglas Jone's short story ( http://frombob.to/you/
aconvers.html ):
But suppose it were possible to create physical universes like yours
within an appropriately specified computational universe. What could
you say about the origin of the universe then?
Very little, actually. Why? Because all general-purpose computers
are equivalent. If it is possible to perform this "computation"
within any one computational universe, then there are an infinite
number of computational universes in which this "computation" is
performed. If you were to try to follow the chain of causality back
past the origin of your physical universe, you would find an
infinite number of causes.
These are all deep, deep questions. We have been thinking about
them, and doing experiments, for a very long time. Our
mathematicians have proven certain things... I’m sorry, I have to be
very careful about what I say here. There is the very real
possibility of inducing cardiac arrest in certain people if I say
too much. So let me say some vague things:
There exists an object, a mathematical object, which has certain
properties. For reasons that should be obvious, there is no general
agreement on what the best name for this object is, so for the sake
of convenience, let’s just call it The Object.
Your world, that is, the entire universe that you can observe, is an
infinitesimal part of that Object. And so is mine. And so is every
universe that can possibly exist. And everything else that can
exist, whether or not you would call it a universe. All of
Mathematics is inside that Object. And the various parts of that
Object are somehow connected together.
We expend a considerable amount of effort attempting to deduce the
properties of that Object. In a sense, we are Exploring it.
As I said before, we are Explorers, and we are exploring Everything.
And exploring the nature of the connections between the various
parts of The Object is the most fundamental kind of exploration
there is. And some of the most interesting kinds of connections are
related to Consciousness.
The Object is Eternal. It exists outside of time. It has no
beginning and no end; it simply Is.
It contains many universes that have a property called Time, and you
live in one of them, and so do I. But these universes are Eternal
too. The Time within them is visible only from a particular point of
view.
Whenever we speak of creating a computational universe, or of
creating a physical universe, or of creating anything, we are not
really speaking of creation; we are really speaking of making a
connection. Making a connection between different parts of The Object.
The parts are already there. They have always been there. And we
don’t really make the connection; the connection was always there
too. We just discover what is already there. In other words, we just
become aware of it.
So whenever we think we’re creating something, this is just a vanity
of the ego, which exists within Time. Everything is already there,
within The Object.
B: What do you mean, the Afterlife? Apparently, each of us gets an
infinite number of different ones, simultaneously. And this doesn’t
just happen when you die. It happens to you all the time.
In the last five minutes, you have split into an uncountable number
of different versions of yourself, each one in a different universe.
And some of those versions of yourself have found themselves in
universes that are very different from the one you all shared just
over five minutes ago. Just because you don’t recall ever
experiencing a discontinuity that big, doesn’t mean that it never
happens to you.
The Object contains all possible computational universes, with all
possible initial conditions. So there are an infinite number of
computational universes which contain, as part of their initial
conditions, You as you exist at this precise instant. And this
instant too. And all of the other instants of your life.
And in precisely zero percent of those universes, which is to say an
infinite number of them, you will find yourself in a world like the
one I live in, the Realm of Possibilities. Where you will have
freedom, and infinite choices, and immortality. Where you can visit
worlds of invention, and live innumerable lives. Where you can
follow, for a time, the paths of other Souls.
Of course, in the vast majority of those universes, you will find
yourself completely alone. But nevertheless, it can be shown that
there are an infinite number of universes that will also contain all
of your friends and loved ones. Even the ones who are already dead
in your world.
And we can take this even further. It can be shown that there exist
an infinite number of universes that each contain almost Everyone!
You see, The Object contains the Continuum of Souls. It is a
connected set, with a frothy, fractal structure, of rather high
dimensionality. The Continuum contains an infinite number of Souls,
all Souls in fact, and an infinite number of them are You. Or at
least, close enough to being You so that nobody could tell the
difference. Not even You.
And the Continuum also contains an infinite number of souls that are
almost You. And an infinite number that are sort of You. And because
it is a Continuum, and because there is really no objective way to
tell which one is really You, then any method one uses to try to
distinguish between You and non-You will produce nothing but
illusion. In a sense, there is only one You, and it is Everyone.
Of course, You can tell which one is you, can’t you? Or can you?
I saw some old posts in the archive on this list by a "Doug Jones",
does anyone remember him?
Jason
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