That's okay John, I understand! No single one of us really knows how much time we have left -- nobody is promised a long life, but death is a certainty we are bound to meet sooner or later. I share the verses of the Quran as I believe it to be divine guidance. Why my heart believes in the existence of God or why my heart is convinced that the Quran is from God, I suppose I can not really translate in words just the same as you cannot express in words why your heart refuses to believe. I find the Quran to be a luminous book full of knowledge and wisdom beyond what any human can author -- you consider it a human work. I try to share verses which mention nature to help realise that a human could not have authored such knowledge. I really don't know what would comprise evidence for you. Let's try a different approach. Do you really think that everything just happened on its own and there is no creator behind it? If you do believe that there must be a creator, then try praying to your creator and implore faith and guidance. If you have any specific questions, I'll try answering them, and I pray that God helps you find faith. Amen.
Samiya On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 1:28 AM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: > Samiya, let me be rude, for an exchange: > do you really think (and believe!) that you are a trustable advocate os > God's will and wisdom? > You never even justified your God's existence and activity (plans?) except > for some threats against not believeing what you said. And I repeat: > WHAT YOU SAID (mostly hiding behind YOUR words) assigned to God - or the > Script, (which is no better than your word as long as you did not justify > the origin of it). > And many of this "think-tank" flock of mostly believers goes for it > endlessly. > > I believe I have little time left yet cannot force myself NOT to go > through your escapades about YOUR OWN belief system without believable > justification. > Sorry for my outburst > John M > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List < >>> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>> Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, >>> Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study >>> things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by >>> Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. >>> The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to >>> know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! >>> >>> >>> And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to >>> the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use >>> intelligence. >>> >>> Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, >> so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha >> Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to >> keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only >> to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' >> and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do >> something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this >> temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, >> however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our >> efforts, is determined and decreed by God. This helps to keep us going even >> when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all >> efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I >> suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer >> codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are >> already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control >> and the decision is always as the designer designed it. >> I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal >> level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to >> me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the >> matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] >> >> Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) >> >> In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 >> >> Samiya >> >> >>> Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that >>> matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged >>> individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. >>> >>> Samiya >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >>> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am >>> Subject: Re: Samiya proved right >>> >>> God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm >>> sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. >>> The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own >>> selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone >>> claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One >>> who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden >>> throughout the heavens and earth. >>> Samiya >>> >>> On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR < lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> "No compulsion" when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on >>> the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in >>> a non-religious context. "But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going >>> to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and >>> then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his >>> fault, and not mine." I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that >>> basis. >>> >>> If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell >>> really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as >>> Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge >>> on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he >>> fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. "Now look what you made >>> me do!" he says as he tortures you. >>> >>> >>> On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou < stath...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias < samiyaill...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the >>>>>>> Fire due to our own negligence. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That is known as "victim blaming". It's the psychology of a sadist >>>>>> - the same as the rapist's "she was asking for it". >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That's a horrible analogy! >>>>> Consider the following verses: >>>>> >>>>> http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you >>>>> messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears >>>>> Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they >>>>> grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - >>>>> those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? >>>> You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this >>>> respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. >>>> >>>> >>>> If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, >>>> it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can >>>> probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has >>>> been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however >>>> according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before >>>> being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He >>>> has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit >>>> only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another >>>> place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever >>>> wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is >>>> forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of >>>> being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. >>>> >>>> Samiya >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from >>>>> the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them >>>>> testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, >>>>> "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of >>>>> Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It >>>>> was >>>>> only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, >>>>> and >>>>> we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the >>>>> falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and >>>>> perhaps they will return. >>>>> >>>>> http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take >>>>> you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit >>>>> [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. >>>>> Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you >>>>> over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over >>>>> their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be >>>>> equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And >>>>> Allah >>>>> has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your >>>>> mates >>>>> sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then >>>>> in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? >>>>> And >>>>> they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power >>>>> of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they >>>>> are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows >>>>> and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and >>>>> unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good >>>>> provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? >>>>> Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an >>>>> example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is >>>>> a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is >>>>> he >>>>> equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? And to >>>>> Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And the >>>>> command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even nearer. >>>>> Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. >>>>> >>>>> Samiya >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Stathis Papaioannou >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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