Well, it halted intellectual progress (and governmental) progress, by submitting to god's will and shrugging one's shoulders. Mind you, everyone in the past and today does this because we cannot rule reality. The American phrase, "it is what it is," we can all hear every day. Now why we may ask ourselves, did Muslim civilization slide, while Europe, rose and China, after sending its ships round the world achieved, and then declined? The best guess is that although piety may keep a person humble, it may also make someone, incurious. "Why ask? It's God's will! What can we do?" The Greeks also rose and fell. China under the Ming, I believe, turned inward after the Emperors command, and nobody could rise out of what their fathers did to earn a living. This killed China's rise to power, even after success with technology.
As far as controlling things here is a short paul davies speculation on the universe, reality, mind. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2015/06/todays-galaxy-insight-an-et-technology-beyond-matter.html Here is another guy's but be careful, he might be a shia! http://www.int.washington.edu/users/mjs5/Simulation/Universe/ -----Original Message----- From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 1, 2015 10:18 pm Subject: Re: Samiya proved right On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know! And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24 Samiya Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God. Samiya -----Original Message----- From: Samiya Illias < samiyaill...@gmail.com> To: everything-list < everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am Subject: Re: Samiya proved right God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. Samiya On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR < lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: "No compulsion" when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. "But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine." I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis. If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. "Now look what you made me do!" he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou < stath...@gmail.com> wrote: On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias < samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. That is known as "victim blaming". It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's "she was asking for it". That's a horrible analogy! Consider the following verses: http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. Samiya http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And the command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. Samiya -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. 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