Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 10 Jun 2015, at 02:33, Bruce Kellett wrote:

Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 09 Jun 2015, at 15:11, Bruce Kellett wrote:
The details of the operation of the brain, and its effect on consciousness, are the realm of study of the neurosciences. Computer scientists only ever confuse themselves over these quite simple matters.
The neuro-science are based on comp. Unless you believe like Penrose that the neuron use a non computable ability to reduce the wave packet? is that the case? Is your theory Penrose theory?

No, I don't believe that the neuron 'reduces the wave function'. But your claim that the neurosicences are based on comp is something of an overreach. The neurosciences are based on the study of the physical brain. Like most scientists, they do not have any particular metaphysical prejudices, and those that they do have seldom get in the way of their science.

So they use comp by default,

You mean that work on the basis that conscious supervenes on the physical brain, and that that brain operates according to regular physical laws. You don't have to accept comp, even unknowingly, to believe that.

except Penrose. Comp is a weak and general hypothesis, given that if we except the wave collapse, we don't know in nature any process which is not Turing emulable. Some believe that with a black hole we might be able to implement non-computational stuff, but it is far fetched and controversial.

You seem to be asking me to provide a detailed mechanism for the phenomenon of consciousness. That is not my area, so I do not feel myself under any obligation to provide such a mechanistic account.

I was asking for a non mechanist account as you are the one saying that comp is false.

And I have given such an account, many times. In any case, I can criticize comp without having to provide an alternative. One can say that general relativity and QM are mutually incompatible without having to solve the problem of quantum gravity.

I do feel, however, that I have the reciprocal right to ask you to produce the fortran program that instantiates your personal consciousness. You claim that it exists, so why not produce it?

The UD does it. I wrote it in Lisp.

And what did you find? The truth is that you have not tested any of these ideas in practice, nor have you produced a conscious program or computer.

Bruce

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