Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 10 Jun 2015, at 02:33, Bruce Kellett wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 09 Jun 2015, at 15:11, Bruce Kellett wrote:
The details of the operation of the brain, and its effect on
consciousness, are the realm of study of the neurosciences.
Computer scientists only ever confuse themselves over these quite
simple matters.
The neuro-science are based on comp. Unless you believe like Penrose
that the neuron use a non computable ability to reduce the wave
packet? is that the case? Is your theory Penrose theory?
No, I don't believe that the neuron 'reduces the wave function'. But
your claim that the neurosicences are based on comp is something of an
overreach. The neurosciences are based on the study of the physical
brain. Like most scientists, they do not have any particular
metaphysical prejudices, and those that they do have seldom get in the
way of their science.
So they use comp by default,
You mean that work on the basis that conscious supervenes on the
physical brain, and that that brain operates according to regular
physical laws. You don't have to accept comp, even unknowingly, to
believe that.
except Penrose. Comp is a weak and general
hypothesis, given that if we except the wave collapse, we don't know in
nature any process which is not Turing emulable. Some believe that with
a black hole we might be able to implement non-computational stuff, but
it is far fetched and controversial.
You seem to be asking me to provide a detailed mechanism for the
phenomenon of consciousness. That is not my area, so I do not feel
myself under any obligation to provide such a mechanistic account.
I was asking for a non mechanist account as you are the one saying that
comp is false.
And I have given such an account, many times. In any case, I can
criticize comp without having to provide an alternative. One can say
that general relativity and QM are mutually incompatible without having
to solve the problem of quantum gravity.
I do feel, however, that I have the reciprocal right to ask you to
produce the fortran program that instantiates your personal
consciousness. You claim that it exists, so why not produce it?
The UD does it. I wrote it in Lisp.
And what did you find? The truth is that you have not tested any of
these ideas in practice, nor have you produced a conscious program or
computer.
Bruce
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