On 07 Oct 2015, at 20:43, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 10/7/2015 3:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
But I think that's wrong. Brains are not like ideal von Neumann
computers or Turing machines that have "brain states"
corresponding to "mental states". If you simulated a brain using
a computer you would find that an enormous number of "brain
states" were required to instantiate a single conscious thought
and furthermore the brains states necessary for one thought
overlapped with those necessary for the next thought. So this
overlap at the low level is part of the physical continuity needed
for consciousness.
But then you need to assume non-computationalisme, and consider
yourself as a non Turing elumable reality. OK, but that does not
solve the mind-body problem per se. It only introduce diffculties.
I didn't assume computationalism was false, I just assumed that
relation between thoughts and computations was one->many.
OK. That is required from computationalisme.
If you instantiate thoughts by simulating a brain in a digitial
computer then each thought or experience will correspond to many
sequential steps in the computation, with no sharp division between
one thought and the next.
Right. The very idea of time is a complex elaboration of the brain or
the universal system. For us there is a short term treatment, and a
long term treatment, involving different parts of the brain.
Consciousness is the mental first person view of believing at least
one constant truth, used as an etalon relatively to which things are
known. It is used by attention to focus, or not, on the many thought
associated to internal variate streams of subconsciousness processing.
But I don't see why you need physics. If the brain is Turing emulable
at some level, at that level I can simulate the continuation in
whatever universal system I decide to use, and if I use the game of
life (say) the notion of step will be well defined, copiable, etc. And
all those life patterns are simulated already by the true polynomial
diophantine equation, in a way such that the indexical "you" can't see
the difference locally.
The fact that the physics can be simulated by discrete computation
doesn't imply that the conscious states are discrete.
The fact that consciousness state might be discrete implies that
physics cannot be simulated by discrete computation. Physics needs
all computations all at once to get the mathematically correct FPI.
??
You might reread step 7.
The fact that we are Turing emulable distributes our states in the
infinitely many computations, and by the invariance of the number of
steps of the UD, or the length of proofs of the sigma_1 truth, on
which the first person has no access. The FPI makes the continuations
inheriting the topology imposed by the logic of self-reference.
Physics needs all computations, because it is the science of
prediction, and by this FPI and the distribution, it is a complex
statistics. fortunately the self-referential constraints determined
the logic of the measure one, and so the logic of the "yes/no"
experiments, which gives the elementary projector, which behaves with
the right (almost) quantum logic(s). And as I said, we get the tools
to distinguish the qualia from the quanta, and their different, but
related, mathematics.
Bruno
Brent
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