On 19 Oct 2015, at 04:29, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 4:47 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
>> A simulation is never 100% accurate,
> This not correct. In Virtue of the digitalness, a simulation
can be 100% accurate,
Only if the numbers a computer uses are actual numbers not
simulated numbers.
> notably when simulating a digital process.
Then it's not a simulated digital process, it's just a
digital process.
You confuse levels. You confuse phi_u(x, y) with phi_r(u (x, y)). In
arithmetic all emulation of programs exists, and all emulation of such
emulation also exists, and are different computations.
(Using the standrad sense of computation, of course, and not your
particular physicalist redefinition of the term).
> There is word for "100% accurate simulation", we call that an
emulation. The models of RA emulates all computations.
Don't tell me this wonderful news tell INTEL, their stock price
will skyrocket! And I own some INTEL stock.
You have repeated this straw man argument a lot, but it is valid only
for a notion of computation which begs the questions in which we are
interested. You add systematically "only when God made it", at the
exact place we cannot use God.
You do bad theology, like some fundamentalist. you invent a God to
prevent research. Like I said, you are a fundamentlist Aristotelians.
You don't do science, you preach.
>You can emulate in algol a fortran computation of the
factorial function. It will be 100 % accurate
It will be 100% crap unless the Algol or FORTRAN program is
running on a computer made of matter that obeys the laws of
physics.
False. Physics has no relevance at all here. What I said is true in
both the case where the Algol interpreter or compiler run in a model
of arithmetic, or in a primitive physical reality.
> This does not make possible to extract the computations
result directly, as we live in a physical reality, and must
implement the computations in the physical reality to get that effect.
Why on earth would that be?? If the emulation is perfect and
physical reality is of only of secondary importance and is being
emulated by mathematics then we live in mathematical reality too. So
why can't we extract the results of computations directly?
Because that would be magical. Even in arithmetic, the self-aware
entities are confronted to a non trivial physical reality, and despite
living in arithmetic (more exactly in its FPI limiting "border") they
have to implement in their own "real-time and space" what they want to
be able to access in their own "real-time-and space".
To extract physics is about equivalent with explaining why we can't
access all the arithmetical truth at once, despite being emergent
entities there.
> that relative emulation of that process is emulated itself
infinitely often in arithmetic.
If physics is being emulating by arithmetic
That might not necessarily happens. Comp (+ the idea that my
generalized brain is not the entire physical reality) predicts that
physics is NOT emulable in arithmetic. By the invariance of the first
person for the delay of reconstitution made by the universal
dovetailer, the observable here-and-now depends on infinities of
computations, that we can not emulate in arithmetic, despite they
emerge from the arithmetical truth (which is far beyond the sigma_1
emulable part of arithmetic).
then we who live in the physical world are being emulating by
arithmetic too
All our dreams, but never the physical reality. I don't expect you to
swallow this as this use the FPI (and thus step 3).
and should be able to make arbitrarily large calculations instantly.
Yes, comp predicted that this is possible, and that is what happens
when we exploits the infinities of computations below our subst-level,
like in continuous quantum algorithm. Comp predicted such type of
infinite computations, but I thought (wrongly) that QM+relativity
forbids it, until the day I realize that QM does not need the wave
collapse. But that is true only when we exploits what comp predicts
can be "seen" below of substitution level.
If however its the other way around and physics is emulating
arithmetic then it would be easy to explain why we can't make such
calculations.
Yes, but we can. It is the comp-computations, or quantum computations.
the computations which relies on the primitive matter, defined here by
the "mess" below our substitution level, and which determines the
domain of what I call the global FPI, and which is given by the logics
S4Grz1, Z1* and X1*, when we do the math. And it works up to now, as
we get the non trivial quantization on the sigma_1-sentences (the
arithmetic Universal Dovetailer).
Bruno
> here you make a constant confusion of level
You can't make up your mind if X is emulating Y or Y is emulating
X and I'm the one who makes "a constant confusion of levels"?
> You confess having not read the works,
Bragged would be a better word than "confessed", only a fool would
keep reading a proof after he found a error.
> You involve yourself into an ontological commitment (that is
religion)
Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.
> You proceed like a creationist,
Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.
> I did not ever dreamed about someone confirming so well that
strong non-agnostic materialist atheism belong to fundamentalist
religion.
Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.
John K Clark
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