On 09 Jul 2016, at 18:35, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 6:11 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 4:53 AM, Telmo Menezes
<te...@telmomenezes.com>
wrote:
Thanks for illustrating what I just said.
What you just said was:
"
Most sane people sooner or later realize that the only way to win
this
game is not to play it
"
And then I just said:
"If true then the only logical conclusion to make is that
Telmo Menezes
is not sane."
It is also possible that I am an outlier in this regard (most sane
people...) or that I haven't reached the point where I am sick of
playing the game (sooner or later).
It is further possible that what I mean by "this game" is the game of
arguing about the validity of the UDA (and please spare me from your
usual jokes where you go to wikipedia looking for meaning of the
acronym. Yes yes it's super funny).
This is your usual modus operandi and I am sick of it. I say modus
operandi because, judging from certain contributions you made to this
mailing list it is quite clear that you do not have the limited
intelligence required to honestly make such mistakes. That would be
forgivable, but here, and more importantly as you do when discussing
Bruno's theories, you argue in bad faith.
Finally, yes it could be that I am not sane. Unlike you, I consider
this possibility. The fact that you do not consider it is precisely
what makes you a religious fundamentalist. Just because your religion
has no name, doesn't mean that it does not exist.
I'll spare you the trouble and paste you usual bromide. Here you go:
"Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12."
This is precisely the sort of manipulative bullshit that religious
people use. The implicit appeal to common sense. The suggestion that
your opponent is childish. Anything but directly addressing the ideas
of your interlocutor.
You argue in bad faith, you destroy honest discussion to score
internet points and you bully people that were nothing but nice to
you.
Rather accurate description I'm afraid.
I think John Clark's religion has a name, though, it is Materialism----
which includes Weak Materialism: the belief in some primary matter and/
or its corresponding epistemological version: Physicalism (physics is
the fundamental science, physics can't be reduced to anything else
simpler).
I use "weak materialism" for that religion, to oppose it to the use of
"materialism" in philosophy of mind, which is that not only matter/
force exists, but only matter/force exists.
Note that mechanism is what makes materialism working well, as Diderot
and the modern materialist and Naturalist usually think, but only up
to some point as materialism stumbles down quickly on the mind/body
problem. I think Descartes got the correct (monist) answer, but in his
meditation, he needs to assume that God is good, which, even if true,
cannot be assumed in a scientific derivation. But I think he got the
main point though. Too bad he never finished his text "À la Recherche
de la Vérité". Too bad he dismissed logic and neoplatonism, but there
are historical contingencies which might explain this.
Note that it is possible to disbelieve in primary matter and still be
physicalist. (using a particular or special universal number + some
oracle).
When we assume mechanism, it is up to the materialist to explain what
is primary matter and how it get the focus of consciousness, and it is
up to the physicalist to explain what is the rôle, for consciousness,
of the fundamental laws of physics, and why they can't be explained in
term of the (infinities of) computations (measure).
Some people, when they learn that you are open to the idea that (weak)
materialism is wrong, will believe, for a time, that you are actually
open to the fairy tales, superstition and magic, and so believe that
you are mad. When they realize the error, and that immaterialism can
also be only some mathematicalism, which usually assumes *less* than
physicalism, it is too much embarrassing for them to admit.
Then they hate you cordially when they eventually understand that they
were the one still using magic in their religion.
Bruno
Thanks for illustrating what I just said.
John K Clark
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