On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> >> >> what is that one and only one answer? Is it Moscow or Washington? >> >> And if there is only one then >> >> why do you call it " the future 1p views ", why is it plural? > > > > > Because we are in a duplication thought experiment. Then it's "a future 1p view" not "THE future 1p views" , assuming that is that "future 1p view" actually means something. > > We can say that the one answer > > will be "Washington and not Moscow" or "Moscow and not Washington", but in > Helsinki > > we can’t predict which one precisely. Helsinki? Precisely? Even after the experiment is over nobody can answer even approximately the question " what one and only one city will I see after I am duplicated?" . The fact that this can not be answered is not due to some deeply hidden fact about the nature of reality, it can't be answered because it's not a question, it's not even a stupid question, in a world that contains "I" duplicating machines it's just gibberish with a question mark at the end. > > You ask me non-sensical or ambiguous question. That's true I did indeed, but I can't claim credit for the "question", it originally came from you. You're the one that claimed that because nobody can answer the nonsensical and ambiguous question "what one and only one city will I see after I am duplicated?" profound conclusions about something you call "first person indeterminacy" can be drawn. >> >> I'm just asking how many correct answers to the question "what cities >> will the Helsinki >> >> man see?”are there. I say there are 2, >> >> you say there is only one, you say it is M OR W but not both, so I want >> to know which >> >> answer turned out to be wrong, was Washington wrong or was Moscow wrong? > > > > > Washington is wrong, given that it fails for the Moscow man, and Moscow is > wrong as it fails for the Washington man. So according to you the Helsinki man will see NEITHER Moscow NOR Washington, if you're right the poor man will see nothing but oblivion. I don't think you're right. > Not at all. H-BM will see W, and H-BM will see M, but none will see "W > and M”. Oh I see, and that cat has black spots and white spots but that doesn’t mean the cat has black and white spots. No I take it back, I don’t see, > And "H-BM will see W, and H-BM will see M," is a 3-1 description of the > 1p, but it is not the 1p experiences themselves, as nobody will see the two > cities at once. Then from “the 1-p experience itself" what one and only one city will the Helsinki man see after the duplication experiment is over? A ssuming the term “the 1-p experience itself" actually means something t here can be only one answer, Moscow or Washington , so which is it ? If you can't name that one and only one city before the experiment nor even after it has been completed then it is not a experiment at all , it's just a muddle. > You continue to systematically ignore the 1p and 3p views, And I can see no reason to change my policy until you rectify the internal contradictions in your homemade baby talk. > > which is at the heart of the whole mind-body problem The key mind-body problem is "how can matter be arranged in such a way that intelligent behavior is produced?". When that question is fully answered it will be by AI researchers not philosophers. > the H-guy, or anyone else for that matter, when we assume mechanism, can > be sure of not being able to predict which first person experience the guy > in Helsinki will live. Forget assumptions f orget predict ions , nobody can even postdict which first person experience the guy in Helsinki ended up living because nobody knows what one and only one thing "the guy" means in a world that contains guy duplicating machines. > He can be sure it will be "one city”, And neither “he” nor anybody else will even know what that one city was. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
