On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 4:42:44 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 7/10/2018 3:01 PM, agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote: > > *IIRC, the above quote is also in the Wiki article. It's not a coherent > argument; not even an argument but an ASSERTION. Let's raise the level of > discourse. It says we always get a or b, no intermediate result when the > system is in a superposition of states A and B.. Nothing new here. Key > question: why does this imply the system is in states A and B > SIMULTANEOUSLY before the measurement? AG * > > > Because, in theory and in some cases in practice, there is a direct > measurement of the superposition state, call it C, such that you can > directly measure C and always get c, >
*Is c an eigenvalue of some operator? How can you always get c, if C is not an eigenstate of some operator? And if it is an eigenstate, why do you assert it is a superposition? AG* > but when you have measured and confirmed the system is in state c and then > you measure A/B you get a or b at random. The easiest example is SG > measurements of sliver atom spin orientation where spin UP can be measured > left/right and get a LEFT or a RIGHT at random, but it can be measured > up/down and you always get UP. Any particular orientation can be > *written* as a superposition of two orthogonal states. > *I'm not clear what a left/right measurement is, and how it might be measured. I assume you mean the directions perpendicular to Up / Dn. In any event, how is this related to the simultaneity of Up / Dn? AG* > > This is true in general. Any state can be written as a superposition of > states in some other basis. But it is not generally true that we can > prepare or directly measure a system in any given state. So those states > we can't directly access, we tend to think of them as existing only as > superpositions of states we can prepare. > *I'm OK with superpositions, only their interpretation of simultaneity of component states. We can measure Up or Dn, and represent the situation before measurement as a superposition and calculate probabilities, but the assumption of simultaneity seems unsupported and produces apparent paradoxes. AG * > > Brent > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
