On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 8:17:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 7/10/2018 6:34 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 5:08:30 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/10/2018 3:30 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> *More and more, Dirac's claim seems to be an illusion that most everyone >>> has fallen in love with. Consider the example of a vector in a plane >>> decomposed as a superposition of unit vectors in some orthogonal basis, Not >>> an exact analogy to the quantum superposition of course, but worth thinking >>> about. How many decompositions are possible? Well, rotations of the >>> original orthogonal basis give an uncountable number of DIFFERENT >>> decompositions. In fact, the set of NON orthogonal pairs define another >>> uncountable set of bases, each of which results in a DIFFERENT >>> decomposition. So in this example, it makes no sense to say the original >>> vector is in two states simultaneously in some basis, when an uncountable >>> set of other bases exist, each with a different decomposition. In the >>> quantum case, it is natural and convenient to restrict ourselves to the >>> basis in which the system is being measured. But even here, other bases >>> exist which allow other, different, decompositions of the system into >>> superpositions, sometimes countable, sometimes not, depending on the >>> system. * >>> >>> >>> All true. True of any vector space. SO WHAT? >>> >>> *So, IMO, Dirac's claim fails, not to mention the fact that his >>> "argument" in favor of simultaneity* >>> >>> >>> "simultaneity" doesn't appear in Dirac's paragraph. So your rant is >>> unclear. >>> >> >> *Why characterize my comment as a "rant"? * >> >> >> It's a rant because you repeat several times that they're infinitely many >> possible basis. Yet you make no argument nor recognize that while true it >> does nothing to contradict Dirac and is in fact a common fact about all >> vector spaces. Yet you pretend you've scored some rhetorical victory by >> pointing out an absurdity. >> > > *When I get no response, I assume I am not understood, or my point was not > well written. Moreover, I have stated several times that given the plethora > of bases, it makes no sense to single out a single basis and assert the > state of a system is simultaneously in the component states. AG * > >> >> *Is the intent to mock to support your thesis? If you look a few messages >> above, to where I underlined part of Dirac's comment reproduced in Wiki, >> you will see he essentially says the two states in the superposition he >> uses for an example, is tantamount to simultaneous. Here it is: * >> >> *It requires us to assume that between these states there exist peculiar >> relationships such that whenever the system is definitely in one state we >> can consider it as being partly in each of two or more other states.* >> >> *The "one state" he refers to is the superposition of the Up and Dn >> states. **AG* >> >> >> No. It would be the UP state. >> > > *I think you're misreading Dirac's comment, which isn't clear, unless he's > referring to a change of basis. That would mean that when we measure Up, > the system remains in the superposed Up and Dn state. AG* > >> >>> * of superposition states prior to measurement, is really just an >>> assertion. AG* >>> >>> >>> Instead of picking on a paragraph of Dirac taken out of context, why >>> don't you go read a modern version. Try Asher Peres, "Quantum Theory: >>> Concepts and Methods" pp 50, 116-117 >>> >> >> >> *Dirac isn't a good source? I am using a library computer with limited >> time until my computer returns from repair. So, if you can, please copy and >> paste your reference above. AG * >> >> >> Copy and paste doesn't work well with equations and symbols. Just go to >> >> >> http://www.fisica.net/quantica/Peres%20-%20Quantum%20Theory%20Concepts%20and%20Methods.pdf >> >> and scroll down the relevant pages. It doesn't take more than 10sec. >> >> Brent >> > > *Thanks. Time's nearly up here. Will do it tomorrow. AG * >
*Do you mean the first two pages of the chapter entitled, Composite Systems? This is page 115-116 on the numbered pages. AG * > > >> >> >>> Brent >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
