I On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 10:17, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > > On 9/18/2019 3:22 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 08:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On 9/18/2019 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' < >> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> *> **Haven't you ever awoken from surgery? AG * >>> >>> *>> Yes, and I think I was just the same as before and so does everyone >>> else. But maybe I am fundamentally different. How would I know?* >>> >>> >>> You'd ask people who knew you well. >>> >> >> And if you did that you would hear them make noises with their mouth, but >> whatever consciousness is it certainly isn't those mouth noises. If your >> lucky you may be able to detect a pattern in those noises that would >> indicate intelligence, but you would have to make an additional assumption >> to conclude that also indicated consciousness, namely that consciousness is >> an inevitable byproduct of intelligence. In the real world everybody makes >> that assumption a thousand times a day because the alternative is >> solipsism. >> >> >> They question was whether you could find out you were fundamentally >> different after an operation. Not whether or not your friends were >> conscious. Saibal said "No." apparently based only on the fact that he >> couldn't trust introspection. But in that would equally imply he couldn't >> tell whether he fundamentally changed from day to day, or minute to minute. >> Of course nothing can provide certainty, but your friends saying you act >> differently or you don't would be good evidence. It's the same level of >> evidence for thinking one another consciousness, but it's broader since you >> might be different in some way you were not conscious of. >> > > And if you were different in some way you were not conscious of, it > wouldn’t matter. > > > How do you figure that? Suppose you're a murderous psychopath after the > operation. Just because YOU don't remember not being a murderous > psychopath before, it may still matter. > In that case there would be objective evidence of a change and you would be conscious of this evidence. But if neither you nor anyone else noticed a change, it wouldn’t matter. For example, if my colour qualia changed every day, but there was no objective difference and I didn’t notice any difference, it wouldn’t matter. It could be argued that such a change is not really a change at all. > -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAH%3D2ypXvvoGn%3DYvoChSL9B0s3-_HEYBnVvGw1%2BWDFH4s%2B%3D%2BPsg%40mail.gmail.com.
