> On 17 Sep 2019, at 22:23, spudboy100 via Everything List > <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Premise-wise, Consciousness could indeed be algorithmic, and thus emergent. > In other words baked-in. > View this video link and despair puny humans! > https://openai.com/blog/emergent-tool-use/ > <https://openai.com/blog/emergent-tool-use/>
Consciousness cannot be algorithmic if Mechanism is true, because it relies on the notion of truth, which is not just not algorithmic, but is not even definable. Consciousness is related to the semantic of some program observing itself, and no program can defined its own semantic once he has enough arithmetical belief. Sometimes “mechanism” is described as a theory in which consciousness is algorithmic, and that is OK for an oversimplified description of mechanism, but at some point we have to be more precise to avoid contradictions and some nonsense. Most attribute of a program are not algorithmic. A program can compute the factorial function. That is algorithmic. But the attribute “being a program computing the factorial function” is not algorithmic. A total (everywhere defined) program is an algorithm, which stops on all inputs. But being a program computing a total function, or emulating total program is NOT algorithmic at all. It is Pi_2-complete, which is far beyond what is emulable or definable by the partial computable function which does not leave the sigma_1 reality. In practice, that is not important, but it is crucial for handling the mind-body problem when we assume mechanism. Bruno > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> > To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Tue, Sep 17, 2019 3:55 pm > Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:10 AM Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be > <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > > >>I think the guy is a bit of an idiot. He starts off badly by equating > >>intelligence and consciousness and then it gets worse when he defines the > >>personal pronoun "I" by what will happen in the future rather than what > >>actually happened in the past. And that was all in the first paragraph, I > >>didn't read any further. > > > But “I” is used in statement concerning the future, or you could not say “I > > didn’t read any further”. > > "Did" is the PAST tense form of "do". However personal pronouns are perfectly > fine and everybody uses them a thousand times a day, so it would be OK to say > "I will not read him in the future" UNLESS: > 1) The statement was NOT made in our everyday world where personal pronoun > duplicating machines don't exist yet, or... > 2) The personal pronoun was used in a thought experiment that was trying to > illustrate a point about existentialism and the fundamental nature of > personal identity. > > John K Clark > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1uoHkY%2BxUOh%3DkgMHgfw5GPoWQZwL67CDsTD1-WCZS1fg%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv1uoHkY%2BxUOh%3DkgMHgfw5GPoWQZwL67CDsTD1-WCZS1fg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1251532279.8809560.1568751818806%40mail.yahoo.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1251532279.8809560.1568751818806%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/850A8278-AE8B-4615-A788-9EA1B5D5522B%40ulb.ac.be.
