> On 10 Apr 2021, at 13:55, Alan Grayson <agrayson2...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 5:21:46 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote: >> On 9 Apr 2021, at 06:42, Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com >> <applewebdata://777D2C9B-973C-4A23-ABF2-27C89702223B>> wrote: >> >> When the box is closed, and before the measurement, why can't it be claimed >> that the Cat is in a Mixed State, not a Superposition of States? Only the >> latter leads to the paradox of a cat which is Alive and Dead simultaneously. >> AG > > > Because the Wave equation in this setting leads to a pure state dead+alive, > and twe know that such pure state leads to different prediction than any > possible corresponding mixed states. (Assuming the SWE). > > Without any mathematical representation of the individual states of Dead and > Alive, how can it be claimed that Dead and Alive each satisfy the SWE?
By NOT adding the collapse postulate. Then even a state as “macroscopic” as being a dead or alive cat will inherit the superposition ilmplied by Schroedinger’s setting. That follows from the double linearly of both the wave evolution and of the tensor products. The fact that a correct description would use a huge number of dimension and a lot of tensor products cannot be used to make the superposition going away. > And how will the superposition of states Dead + Alive give different > predictions than a mixed state of Dead and Alive? AG Because all pure superposition state gives different predictions than their corresponding mixed state. Of course, it is technologically hopeless to maintain a real cat is a real superposition, but this is only due to our technical impossibility to isolate the cat from us. The cat state will leak to us very quickly, and we will lose the mean to get the sign of interferences. Yet, without assuming some collapse, it is there forever… That is a confirmation of mechanism, where an infinity of distinguishable computations access our (relative) states, and makes us possibly diverging into an infinity of alternate histories/computations. The burden of the proof belongs to those who claim that there is an ontological physical reality, but then you got the “mind-body” problem, the “why there is something” problem, and also, you need to speculate of a non mechanist theory in psychology and biology (making Darwin loosing all its explanative power). There are tuns of evidences for Mechanism, and none for Materialism, as we know since the Dream Argument, given that “evidences” are dream-able. (Many people confuse the evidences for the physical laws, which are number relations, with evidences for an ontological physical universes, but those are different. The ontological question is a metaphysical question, not a physical question. It is to used in any paper of physics, even if implicit in the mind of some cosmologists … perhaps. Bruno > > That’s true even if the box is open, but in that case, the pure state will be > lifted to the observer of the cat, who will become itself in a pure state of > seeing the cat dead and the cat alive, in parallel histories. In this case, > the indeterminacy is explained entirely by the same indeterminacy occurring > in, amoeba self-division, or in the infinite multiplication of all relative > universal number state in arithmetic. > > Bruno > > > > > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com >> <applewebdata://777D2C9B-973C-4A23-ABF2-27C89702223B>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/750f52a9-1316-47db-9b00-cca531c2b527n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/750f52a9-1316-47db-9b00-cca531c2b527n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a9ae7591-ebb1-482b-a2d4-a07a73ca588dn%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a9ae7591-ebb1-482b-a2d4-a07a73ca588dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3B4FA409-E166-4C93-9743-5BF5CCD95149%40ulb.ac.be.
