On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 8:41 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > On 7/4/2021 5:05 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 3:36 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> On 7/4/2021 8:01 AM, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 9:07 AM Lawrence Crowell < >> goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> > *I can imagine this being worked without MWI. The nonlocality of the >>> gravitation field and the locality of QFT means that with spacetime formed >>> by entanglements of quantum states or fields, that locality and nonlocality >>> may be shifted around. Decoherence and the transition of a quantum state or >>> entanglement to a decoherent set may be thought of as a nonlocal process.* >>> >> >> Maybe the above can be imagined, but it's a whole lot easier imagining >> many worlds. I keep thinking of epicycles in astronomy, one needs to go >> through a lot of strenuous mental gymnastics to avoid the obvious >> conclusion that many worlds exist. >> >> > *This may be worked so the objective collapse in GRW is such a shift. * >>> >> >> I think GRW should be ruled out by Occam's razor, it requires extra >> terms be added to Schrodinger's equation which make it more difficult to >> solve and do not improve its ability to make predictions of observable >> events, in fact it makes the predictions worse because unlike Dirac's >> Equation >> or Many Worlds it is not compatible with Special Relativity. >> >> > *There are quantum interpretations that are ψ-epistemic, Copenhagen >>> Interpretation, Qubism etc and those that are ψ-ontic such as Many Worlds >>> or Bohm interpretations. I think there is no decision procedure that can >>> ever tell us which of these sets quantum physics sets within. I would then >>> say which ever one of these you work with is a matter of your choice. I >>> suspect there is no way we can ever know for sure which of these is >>> correct,* >>> >> >> I think I mentioned before that in David Deutsch's book "The Ghost In >> The Atom" he proposed an experimental test that would be very difficult, >> but not impossible, to perform that could decide between Copenhagen and >> Many Worlds; and the reason it's so difficult is not Many Worlds fault, >> the reason is that the conventional view says conscious observers obey >> different laws of physics, Many Worlds says they do not, so to test who's >> right we need a mind that uses quantum properties and algorithms. >> >> An intelligent quantum computer shoots photons at a metal plate one at a >> time that has 2 small slits in it, and then the photons hit a photographic >> plate. Nobody looks at the photographic plate till the very end of the >> experiment. The quantum mind has detectors near each slit so it knows which >> slit the various photons went through. After each photon passes the slits >> , but before they hit the photographic plate, the quantum mind signs a >> document saying that it has observed each and every photon and knows which >> slit each photon went through. It is very important that the document does >> NOT say which slit a photon went through, it only says that it went >> through one slit and only one slit and the mind has knowledge of which one. >> There is a signed document to this effect for every photon it shoots. >> >> Now the mind uses quantum erasure to completely destroy its memory of >> which slit any of the photons went through; the only part remaining in the >> universe is the document which states that each photon went through one and >> only one slit and the mind (at the time) knew which one. Now develop the >> photographic plate and look at it. If you see interference bands then the >> Many World interpretation is correct. If you do not see interference bands >> then there are no worlds but this one and the conventional quantum >> interpretation is correct. >> >> This works because in the Copenhagen interpretation when the results of a >> measurement enters the consciousness of an observer the wave function >> collapses, in effect all the universes except one disappear without a trace >> so you get no interference. In the Many Worlds model all the other worlds >> will converge back into one universe because information on which slit the >> various photons went through was the only thing that made one universe >> different from another, so when that was erased they became identical again >> and merged, but their influence will still be felt, you'll see ambiguous >> evidence that the photon went through slot A only and ambiguous evidence it >> went through slot B only, and that's what causes the interference pattern. >> >> >> And it doesn't work because it assumes that which-way can be both >> observed and yet quantum erased. That's contrary to decoherence theory of >> "observed" and assumes some magic "quantum consciousness", hiding the >> problem behind a lack of definition of consciousness. >> >> Brent >> > You just need a quantum computer with enough qubits to run an AI. Run it > together with Shors algorithm and have "each AI" read a definite random > number from 0 to 2^n where n is the number of qubits needed to represent > the semiprime being factored. Then have the AI copy that number to another > register to prove it went through the AI's mind. > > You can't copy qubits. > I mean copy in the sense of the algorithm's code, which implementation-wise would be propagating the entanglement on to other particles. Jason Brent > > > Each AI will, like the algorithm, will process and experience a unique > value. Complete Shor's algorithm using the register where the AI wrote its > number to, and reverse the circuit of the AI to "quantum erase" its memory. > > The interference of the results from Shor will give you information to > factor the semiprime, and establish the fact that 2^n unique AI minds each > experienced a definite unique value as it existed as part of the > computation. > > There is no decoherence because quantum computers have sufficient control > over the environment, yet this shows there can be no Heisenberg cut between > measurement and consciousness perception by an observer, as here there were > many conscious experiences without collapsing the superposition (which > would have spoiled the computation). > > Now consider we (like the qubits of a quantum computer) are part of an > isolated system, so we are not unlike the conscious observers running on a > quantum computer. We obtain many copies whenever we read qubits in > superposed states. > > Jason > > > > >> >> John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> >> 8b4m >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2UfTu-%2BCBVUH_Zjt%3DpwDxRWMr0hBhQbtYvgum32iz5XA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2UfTu-%2BCBVUH_Zjt%3DpwDxRWMr0hBhQbtYvgum32iz5XA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/84425f9b-b2ba-a667-e847-b562631639b8%40verizon.net >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/84425f9b-b2ba-a667-e847-b562631639b8%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUg8Vb3EnPoGQ1k6-CZK_VPyhyDRzvvLr_08XeaCvYa9jA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUg8Vb3EnPoGQ1k6-CZK_VPyhyDRzvvLr_08XeaCvYa9jA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e78d0755-d874-646c-a3c2-c0074d3d0f60%40verizon.net > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e78d0755-d874-646c-a3c2-c0074d3d0f60%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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