On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:17 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> That's the problem, ALL consciousness theories are good enough, they all >> fit the facts equally well, choosing one is entirely a matter of taste. > > *So whether consciousness is a function of brain processes or is immortal > soul stuff are equally good theories? Both consistent with the fact that > alcohol affects consciousness...assuming it affects soul stuff?* I don't drink but I'm sure alcohol would affect my consciousness and my behavior, and I would be able to prove it affects your behavior too, but I have no way of proving it affects your consciousness, assuming you even have consciousness. * > If tomorrow I came up with a theory and implemented it with a machine > that could scan any brain at any moment and tell me what that brain was > consciously thinking...an effective theory of consciousness...then* Then I would ask, how do you know the machine is working properly, and how on earth do you read the machine's output? Suppose I'm sad and you put me in the machine and the pointer on the machine's sadness dial moves to the 62.4 mark, does that number enable you to understand what it's like for John K Clark to be sad? I don't think so. > people like Chalmers would still whine, "But what is it fundamentally?" Exactly, even if by some miracle you could somehow prove that X caused consciousness they would still not be satisfied, they would demand to know WHY X causes consciousness, and they want to know what caused X. John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> 1Il > * If tomorrow I came up with a theory and implemented it with a machine > that could scan any brain at any moment and tell me what that brain was > consciously thinking...an effective theory of consciousness...then* > Then I would ask, how do you know that your machine accurately described what I was consciously feeling? > people like Chalmers would still whine, "But what is it fundamentally?" > > Brent > > > John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > > nn22 > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3ZygSj5veYrEfgXSLoji6LhuVAb01i8R7zQ2Hhe4H8wA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3ZygSj5veYrEfgXSLoji6LhuVAb01i8R7zQ2Hhe4H8wA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/996098bd-0740-4444-5632-60180466f0dd%40verizon.net > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/996098bd-0740-4444-5632-60180466f0dd%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > * If tomorrow I came up with a theory and implemented it with a machine > that could scan any brain at any moment and tell me what that brain was > consciously thinking...an effective theory of consciousness...then* > Then I would ask, how do you know that your machine accurately described what I was consciously feeling? > people like Chalmers would still whine, "But what is it fundamentally?" > > Brent > > > John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> > > nn22 > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3ZygSj5veYrEfgXSLoji6LhuVAb01i8R7zQ2Hhe4H8wA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3ZygSj5veYrEfgXSLoji6LhuVAb01i8R7zQ2Hhe4H8wA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/996098bd-0740-4444-5632-60180466f0dd%40verizon.net > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/996098bd-0740-4444-5632-60180466f0dd%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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