I did that and it's not a huge amount, maybe 10-20%. We need to profile and see
what else it's doing. Like I said, low hanging fruit are aplenty.
> On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:37 AM, pet...@riseup.net wrote:
>
>> On 2017-02-01 00:19, John Benediktsson wrote:
>> Part of the startup time is calling all of our "startup hooks", of
>> which I
>> have 35 right now in my Factor instance, in all of these vocabularies:
>>
>> {
>> "alien"
>> "destructors"
>> "alien.strings"
>> "io.backend"
>> "source-files.errors"
>> "compiler.units"
>> "vocabs"
>> "io.files"
>> "vocabs.loader"
>> "command-line"
>> "threads"
>> "cpu.x86.features"
>> "io.thread"
>> "core-foundation.run-loop"
>> "environment"
>> "io.backend.unix:signal-pipe-thread"
>> "io.launcher"
>> "random.unix"
>> "bootstrap.random"
>> "io.sockets:ipv6-supported?"
>> "openssl"
>> "tools.crossref"
>> "cocoa"
>> "io.files.temp"
>> "tools.deprecation"
>> "core-foundation"
>> "vocabs.cache"
>> "vocabs.refresh.monitor"
>> "opengl.gl"
>> "opengl"
>> "ui"
>> "core-text.fonts"
>> "core-text"
>> "tools.errors.model"
>> "ui.tools.error-list"
>> }
>>
>> I'm sure a lot of that could be delayed in smart ways to make startup
>> time
>> faster, that's what I meant by low hanging fruit, but also not
>> something
>> that anyone is working on right now.
>>
>> Best,
>> John.
>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:40 PM, <pet...@riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-01-30 18:14, Timothy Hobbs wrote:
>>>> If you are on linux, you might try this very new feature:
>>>> https://criu.org/Main_Page
>>>>
>>>>> On 01/30/2017 17:29, Jim Mack wrote:
>>>>> You could also set up factor as a local web server, and send bash
>>>>> requests to it through a web page, and it would be able to accomplish
>>>>> them locally (or remotely) and report you the results. It would be a
>>>>> quick round-trip cycle with great feedback and the ability to bookmark
>>>>> commands.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 1:39 PM, <pet...@riseup.net
>>>>> <mailto:pet...@riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-01-29 16:20, John Benediktsson wrote:
>>>>>> It would be nice to improve startup time. I imagine some low
>>>>> hanging
>>>>>> fruits if we looked deeply into it. I'll make a note to get that
>>>>> on my
>>>>>> list, unless someone looks into it sooner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2017, at 2:25 PM, pet...@riseup.net
>>>>> <mailto:pet...@riseup.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I spend a lot of time writing small scripts, often in bash.
>>>>> That is
>>>>>>> becoming a more and more painful task as bash is a nice-enough
>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>> on the first look but in the end it seems to go out of it's way
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> trip
>>>>>>> you up with every character you type. I don't mean to rant, I
>>>>> know
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> an old language that has to keep a lot of backward
>>>>> compatibility and
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> actually still serves very well for what it was designed for,
>>>>> as long
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> your script stays <100 lines. Still, there's a lot to be
>>>>> desired.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Factor is a cool language, it's very expressive, mature, has a
>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>> libraries and has all sorts of tricks up its sleaves to bend it
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> will (much like lisp in that regard). It would be a fun
>>>>> experiment to
>>>>>>> write a library or EDSL (embedded DSL) for bash-like scripting.
>>>>>>> However
>>>>>>> there's a bone to be picked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $ time bash -c ''
>>>>>>> bash -c '' 0.00s user 0.00s system 94% cpu 0.004 total
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $ time factor-vm -e=''
>>>>>>> factor-vm -e='' 0.12s user 0.05s system 99% cpu 0.178 total
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know one can create a custom image and maybe cut down on the
>>>>> startup
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> bit, but my question is - would it be possible to cut it down
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> bash's
>>>>>>> startup time *and* still have all the necessary vocabularies in
>>>>> it? I
>>>>>>> don't want to know the startup time with a small image that has
>>>>> like
>>>>>>> nothing in it, I can quickly test that myself. I'd need help to
>>>>> answer
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> if you imagine the use case I'm talking about, include all the
>>>>> vocabs
>>>>>>> that use case would need and make all other possible
>>>>> optimizations (if
>>>>>>> there are) without sacrificing too much, can the startup reach
>>>>> similar
>>>>>>> times?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>> Peter Nagy
>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Factor-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> <mailto:Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
>>>>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Factor-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> <mailto:Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
>>>>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>
>>>>> you think you can reach similar startup times? That would be
>>>>> really
>>>>> cool. I guess your todo list is rather long though.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a side note, are there other concatenative languages you know I
>>>>> could
>>>>> look at?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------
>>>>> Peter Nagy
>>>>> ------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Factor-talk mailing list
>>>>> Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> <mailto:Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
>>>>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
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>>>
>>> Thanks for the interesting links/ideas :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------
>>> Peter Nagy
>>> ------------
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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>>
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>
> Is there any dumb way for me to test what would the startup time be have
> I removed all the hooks? That would show what is the actual overhead all
> the hooks bring.
>
> --
> ------------
> Peter Nagy
> ------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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