On 2017-02-01 15:16, John Benediktsson wrote:
> I did that and it's not a huge amount, maybe 10-20%. We need to
> profile and see what else it's doing. Like I said, low hanging fruit
> are aplenty.
>
>
>> On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:37 AM, pet...@riseup.net wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-02-01 00:19, John Benediktsson wrote:
>>> Part of the startup time is calling all of our "startup hooks", of
>>> which I
>>> have 35 right now in my Factor instance, in all of these
>>> vocabularies:
>>>
>>> {
>>> "alien"
>>> "destructors"
>>> "alien.strings"
>>> "io.backend"
>>> "source-files.errors"
>>> "compiler.units"
>>> "vocabs"
>>> "io.files"
>>> "vocabs.loader"
>>> "command-line"
>>> "threads"
>>> "cpu.x86.features"
>>> "io.thread"
>>> "core-foundation.run-loop"
>>> "environment"
>>> "io.backend.unix:signal-pipe-thread"
>>> "io.launcher"
>>> "random.unix"
>>> "bootstrap.random"
>>> "io.sockets:ipv6-supported?"
>>> "openssl"
>>> "tools.crossref"
>>> "cocoa"
>>> "io.files.temp"
>>> "tools.deprecation"
>>> "core-foundation"
>>> "vocabs.cache"
>>> "vocabs.refresh.monitor"
>>> "opengl.gl"
>>> "opengl"
>>> "ui"
>>> "core-text.fonts"
>>> "core-text"
>>> "tools.errors.model"
>>> "ui.tools.error-list"
>>> }
>>>
>>> I'm sure a lot of that could be delayed in smart ways to make startup
>>> time
>>> faster, that's what I meant by low hanging fruit, but also not
>>> something
>>> that anyone is working on right now.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> John.
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:40 PM, <pet...@riseup.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-01-30 18:14, Timothy Hobbs wrote:
>>>>> If you are on linux, you might try this very new feature:
>>>>> https://criu.org/Main_Page
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/30/2017 17:29, Jim Mack wrote:
>>>>>> You could also set up factor as a local web server, and send bash
>>>>>> requests to it through a web page, and it would be able to
>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>> them locally (or remotely) and report you the results. It would
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> quick round-trip cycle with great feedback and the ability to
>>>>>> bookmark
>>>>>> commands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 1:39 PM, <pet...@riseup.net
>>>>>> <mailto:pet...@riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2017-01-29 16:20, John Benediktsson wrote:
>>>>>>> It would be nice to improve startup time. I imagine some low
>>>>>> hanging
>>>>>>> fruits if we looked deeply into it. I'll make a note to get that
>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>> list, unless someone looks into it sooner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2017, at 2:25 PM, pet...@riseup.net
>>>>>> <mailto:pet...@riseup.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I spend a lot of time writing small scripts, often in bash.
>>>>>> That is
>>>>>>>> becoming a more and more painful task as bash is a nice-enough
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>> on the first look but in the end it seems to go out of it's way
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> trip
>>>>>>>> you up with every character you type. I don't mean to rant, I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> an old language that has to keep a lot of backward
>>>>>> compatibility and
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> actually still serves very well for what it was designed for,
>>>>>> as long
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> your script stays <100 lines. Still, there's a lot to be
>>>>>> desired.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Factor is a cool language, it's very expressive, mature, has a
>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>> libraries and has all sorts of tricks up its sleaves to bend it
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> will (much like lisp in that regard). It would be a fun
>>>>>> experiment to
>>>>>>>> write a library or EDSL (embedded DSL) for bash-like scripting.
>>>>>>>> However
>>>>>>>> there's a bone to be picked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $ time bash -c ''
>>>>>>>> bash -c '' 0.00s user 0.00s system 94% cpu 0.004 total
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $ time factor-vm -e=''
>>>>>>>> factor-vm -e='' 0.12s user 0.05s system 99% cpu 0.178 total
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know one can create a custom image and maybe cut down on the
>>>>>> startup
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> bit, but my question is - would it be possible to cut it down
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> bash's
>>>>>>>> startup time *and* still have all the necessary vocabularies in
>>>>>> it? I
>>>>>>>> don't want to know the startup time with a small image that has
>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> nothing in it, I can quickly test that myself. I'd need help to
>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> if you imagine the use case I'm talking about, include all the
>>>>>> vocabs
>>>>>>>> that use case would need and make all other possible
>>>>>> optimizations (if
>>>>>>>> there are) without sacrificing too much, can the startup reach
>>>>>> similar
>>>>>>>> times?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>>> Peter Nagy
>>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------------------
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>>>>>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>> ------------------
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you think you can reach similar startup times? That would be
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> cool. I guess your todo list is rather long though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a side note, are there other concatenative languages you
>>>>>> know I
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> look at?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>> Peter Nagy
>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------------------
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>>>>>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------------------
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------------------
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>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the interesting links/ideas :)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------
>>>> Peter Nagy
>>>> ------------
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ------------------
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>>>
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>>
>> Is there any dumb way for me to test what would the startup time be
>> have
>> I removed all the hooks? That would show what is the actual overhead
>> all
>> the hooks bring.
>>
>> --
>> ------------
>> Peter Nagy
>> ------------
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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I would consider contributing if you tell me the startup time can be cut
down to 5% of the current one :) That would make the runtime usable for
short scripts in shell pipelines and such.
--
------------
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