--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > In the Hindu yogic tradition I practiced in, the "gap" or > > transcendent in TM speak is only just the beginning...and it's not > > truly transcendental consciousness, it's merely a thought-free > > state. It is however an important sign that practice is ready to > > go to another level, one where the transcendent is nurtured and > > the "gap" becomes much longer. From what I've seen in TM research, > > the longest recorded by their "research" in just a couple of > > minutes. > > More like 20-something minutes, actually. > > Oh, and it's real research. There's no need for > scare quotes. > > But for a > > yogin going deeply we're talking something that goes for several > > hours or much longer, at will. > > Of course, if will is involved,
Of course will IS involved, it's called an "effortless *effort*" Judy! Complete passivity in NOT TM!! "...innocently come back to the mantra" still involves attention, and drawing back the attention using the will effortlessly, without that personal effort there could be no Dharana or "concentration" or Samyama. > it isn't > transcendental-consciousness-by-itself; TC by itself is Samadhi! > it > includes some element of waking consciousness. > What TM researchers have been measuring is not > this mixed state, but TC-by-itself, where the > will cannot be exercised, by definition. Vaj is talking about Dharana (concentration) leading to dhyana (fixity on the object of meditation i.e. pure consciousness) ending in Samadhi (knower, known and object of knowing all are one, you know that). > Many TMers remain in the mixed state-- > spontaneously, not by an effort of will--for > most of the meditation period; it's sometimes > referred to as "witnessing" one's meditation. A state of Samyama only known to the meditator, but if he is witnessing he is likely in the dhyana state (meditation state or fixity on pure consciousness, not yet merged into it). > Plus which, the principle of TM is cycling > effortlessly back and forth between mantra, TC- > by-itself, Judy, in order to get TC by itself you have to proceed thru the 6 spinal chakras, each chakra has a distinctive sound vibration which is basically the same for everyone, hardly anybody in TM has had these experiences and MMY doesn't even talk about them!! > and thoughts, the point being to > allow release of stress. Stress release is > said to be what "kicks" one out of TC-by- > itself. If one were to resist this "kick" > by an effort of will in an attempt to repress > thought, that would defeat the whole purpose. Who mentioned repressing thought?...."innocently *favor*(will)the mantra". > In any case, these are obviously very different > approaches to meditation. It very well may not be effortless with what Vaj practices I don't know, MMY teaches an *effort-less effort*.
