On Jul 23, 2008, at 12:53 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
<snip>
That may be true. I find it hard to believe that earlier cultures
were able to figure this out rather than just going with their
religious meanings in choosing sounds. It seems like a difficult
thing to test.
It is completely knowable in those traditions, albeit not through
conventional, scientific and materialistic means. But more simply,
different devatas had different personalities and those are the
qualities that naturally develop with mantra use.
Outside religious faith, I really can't understand how someone could
be confident of such knowledge.
I think what makes samadhic knowledge so compelling is it's
paradoxical, non-linear nature: before jnana or transcendental
knowledge dawns, you have no clue as to what this even means, but
one instance and as you come out of the state where it is revealed,
you simply possess, literally, volumes of knowledge. Yet there was no
conventional learning process involved. How could this be? I'm not
talking about channelled bullshit here. I hate to say it, but until
it's experienced, there's no way to convey how important such a thing
is. I think probably the best example I can give that is publicly
known is that of Srinivasa Ramanujan. Much of his incredible
mathematical knowledge came from samadhic states. To this very day it
boggles mathematicians. Not conventional by any means, but there it is.
Another example would be the abilities of Yogi Karveji, who can
cognize ones exact birth time by merely placing his attention on the
person.
(Incidentally, Ramanujan's combinatorics problem was recently solved
Link)
I get the compelling nature of
subjective experiences, just not why a modern person wouldn't take
them with a grain of salt.
I think an experienced yogi would take trance states with a very
skeptical grain of salt, because s/he understan s the difference
between mere trance states and the collapse of the observer-observed
dichotomy.
I think it is possible to experience gods
that have qualities of the Hindu Gods, I just don't think that means
they actually exist outside our mind's conception.
Exactly my point, you don't even have to accept any independently
existing realty such as a god, but instead they could be appreciated
as archetypes of a certain type, which have corresponding brain states.
You take is
especially interesting because I know you are aware of the nature of
hypnotic states and what an unreliable source of knowledge they
provide.
Yes, false memory syndrome is well known, but I also understand that
there are other states beyond mere trance states. I would not assume,
for example, even if I spent many years practicing a trance-style
technique, that that's all there is to meditative states.
More offlist later. Gotta run.
