--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradh...@...> wrote: > > > On Mar 19, 2009, at 11:24 AM, sparaig wrote: > > >>> Yeah, all of what you say is so accurate. That's why the ccireteria > >>> for > >>> 24 hour witnessing in advanced TMers includes "witnessing sleep" > >>> for at least a year: there's no physiological correlation to the > >>> state, either > >>> during sleep or in other states either (not). > >> > >> Well it's either there or it's not. Since it's very easy to detect, > >> why haven't we heard of it in TM folks? Sounds like another sleight > >> of hand and a diversion to me. > > > > > > Well, different techniquesw lead to different physiological states. > > It's either the shaksi during sleep or it's not. Many differing > techniques lead to the state. In fact, perhaps it's a sleep > disturbance. If it's not actual yogic sleep then they should start > calling it Maharishi Witnessing� instead, so we know it's just > something they're, once again, making up. >
Shrugs. Its like the researchers that note that "all" meditation techniques lead to a quieting of the part of hte brain having to do with self and come up with books discussing it, while ignoring their own research on TM that counters their hypothesis. The question arises: who is making what up? > > MMY's interpretation of 'witnessing sleep" seems to be supported > > by research on TM. I wouldn't be surprised if the more common > > interpretation of witnessing sleep isn't skupported by research > > on the techniques meant to induce it. > > Again, redefinition needs to be seen for what it is: an attempt to > deceive. > So which is the "redefinition" TM is a rather simple practice and if it facilitates a specific state as a side-effect, which is more likely, that the specific state is the "natural" one or that it is the redefinition? > > My own intuition: Spontaneity implies originality. The fact > > that esoteric techniques lead to esoteric states isn't surprising. > > Well that's just it, yogic sleep isn't that esoteric, nor or the > techniques used. It's just not common to be conscious during sleep > phases nor is it common to be able to only sleep a couple of hours, > or to even show a trend in that direction. TM witnessing sleep is reasonably uncommon. ENough so that it's one of the criteria for partitioning off "advanced practitioners" from not-so advanced. > > > The fact that a simple technique can lead to the same description > > of a state, even if the state itself is different physiologically, > > implies that the simpler technique leads to the originally > > described state. > > > > YMMV of course > > That's just it. If TMers aren't having any of the known traditional > benefits, then we're clearly speaking of something different. > Maharishi Witnessing�. Traditional benefits? Shrugs, I'd be happy with consistent physiological correlates. YMMV. For example, many TMers have described > "witnessing deep sleep" as a very negative experience (more like a > sleep disorder), whereas yogic sleep is not only very pleasurable, > it's incredibly rejuvenating, unlike anything normally experienced > with "mundane" sleep. Anecdotal reports of people in the domes where > TM/TMSP is extensively practiced seem to indicate that sleep > disturbances are somewhat common, to the point where people come to > the domes to sleep! I strongly suspect what the Maharishi Witnessing� > phenomenon actually is is a form a meditative disorder caused by vata > derangement--which is not a good sign. OR its just a sign of "unstressing" manifesting as extreme tiredness. > > > > Given that the "Maharishi sleeps only > >> a few hours a night" rumor has been shown to be just a TB myth, > > > > Actually, I believe that Rick explained that MMY's sleeping > > schedule was all over the place. He was known to sleep for a few > > hours at a time AND could also sleep for longer periods. > > > > Of coruse, we all hear what we want to hear. > > I'd love to hear that Maharishi could sleep for an hour or two and be > fine. But first hand accounts from inside circle people tells a > different story. It's another myth. > People actually sat there and watched MMY sleep? > I had not heard Rick's description. > > > It is certainly perilous to conclude things about alpha. > > The best the TM researchers can actually do is note the > > correlation between TM practice and various physiological > > states. > > > > Whether or not these states are significant is another > > matter of course. > > > > The same holds true of the physiological correlates of > > any other meditation technique as well, don't you agree? > > I don't know of any of meditative traditions that actually are making > a big deal about alpha waves. Gamma, on the other hand... > > I'd tend to agree with neuroscientists in that mental health and > spiritual health are about brain integration. The EEG signature of > such integration is gamma waves persisting inside and outside of > meditation. This view is encouraged by research that shows we can > grown new neurons--primarily in the areas which allow integration. > Therefore gamma synchrony may be the mechanism behind integrative > brain functioning and higher states of consciousness. > Like I said... Lawson
